[kikki]

Oct 11 BD - 11 posts - yup, we've all been there.   
Best advice ever is to read, read and read again all of the fantastic articles on here.

[HeartsBlessing]

HB,

You talk of lot of growth occuring in you and your H.  I read lot of your posts and appreciate you going into details of your journey.

Would you be so kind to make a list of 'Before and 'After' as it relates to your Growth through your MLC.

Appreciate your help,

Not sure if this is what you're looking for but here goes:

I was a people pleaser,  when people said things to me I knew was wrong, I didn't stand up for myself, I was totally weak in that area.  I was always afraid that if I said anything they wouldn't like me anymore.

I was a total perfectionist who was never satisfied with what I did

I was someone who could be controlled/manipulated

I literally had "lost" my identity; I was a wife, a mother, and I really didn't know who I was

I once thought I had to be everything for everybody

I was copdependent; and an enabler, having taken on responsibility in areas where it didn't NEED to be taken, and it wasn't mine

I often said "yes", when I really meant "no"; and resentment was huge within me (Passive aggressive behaviors)

I often suffered from poor boundaries; didn't take care of myself properly

I often got the short end of the stick, and didn't realize what was going on; in other words, I allowed people to disrespect me.

When I argued, I often cried, begged, pleaded, and threw a fit, LOL...yes, I used to do these things.

As a matter of fact, I didn't learn to be more independent in different aspects until my husband's crisis, and my subsequent Transition(that WAS triggered by his crisis), came along.

These were due to unresolved issues within me; whereas my parents were controllers and manipulators, making me responsible for THEIR feelings, and they very often discouraged independence and tried to foster dependence within me.  If I didn't "fall in line" I was "punished" by the withdrawing of their love for me, not to mention I was beaten physically, and if that weren't enough, I was often abused mentally, as well...being told I would never make something of myself, not worth a dime, etc.

The detail above laid the groundwork for the person I married...my husband was NOT physically abusive at all; and he never will be...I won't tolerate that.   Yet, he acted the SAME way my parents had...I wasn't supposed to think for myself, and if I didn't think the same way he did, nor do as he wanted me to, I was "punished" by the same way my dad and my mother had done, by the withdrawal of his love from me.

In short, I was conditioned by my childhood to endure these types of behaviors from him...I was grown physically, but emotionally, I had a LONG way to go.

Of course my husband suffered his own issues; some of these were the same as mine; but he also suffered abandonment issues, having been damaged by his parent's divorce, and so often, he held on to me too tightly; and he controlled and manipulated me; and I didn't know it for a long time.  He, too, had made me responsible for how he felt, and I took on a great deal of responsibility that was NOT mine to bear, but I did, because I didn't know any other way to be.


OK...fast forward to afterward.

I don't have the need to "please others" any more, they can either accept me as I am, or walk away, and I don't worry about what people think of me.

I accept my own limitations in the area of perfectionism, and understand that I'm human, and very capable of making mistakes; and I can laugh at myself when I mess up(I couldn't before)

I know who I am and what I will and won't tolerate out of others within the area of their behavior toward me; I set healthy boundaries against the bad, and I let in the good.

I will NOT be controlled nor manipulated by others; I call them out when I see these kinds of actions.

I will say what I mean, and mean what I say....if I say yes, I mean it; if I say no, I mean just that.

I learned to have confidence, and well developed self esteem  within the person I am, and have become, and I do love myself.

I don't get upset when someone shows anger at me, I can also allow people to be who they are; without expectations.

When engaged in discussion, or even arguing, I make my points, but again, I don't get upset, nor do I cry, beg, plead or throw a fit..those days are long past for me.

In short, I matured emotionally; and I learned to set healthy boundaries with my husband; causing him to also grow up right along with me.

So much has changed, and keeps changing as I grow older. 

I hope this helps.

[hopingfourbetter]

I have been here on this forum since about October of 2010. I have made a lot of progress since I have been here and at times I wonder if the progress I have made just gets left by the wayside. As the message Icon is ( SELF- FOCUS AND PAVING THE WAY: GOAL SETTING STRATEGIES, YOUR PROGRESS). 1- GOAL SETTING STRATEGIES; I have really not even thought about goals because for me one day at a time is all I have thought of and I hope for the best. 2- YOUR PROGRESS)  I say I have made a lot of progress since I have been here in my 2nd sentence but I say my progress has been a reaction to all that has been going on in the last 18 months. What is progress if I do not have any goals. How can we gage progress without a plan?

  One of the things I have been hearing a lot of is the- fixing, the- look in the mirror the- inner healing, I do not want to go through this again. I am here now and as OP says we have been given the gift of time lets use it wisely and make a plan. Coming here and reading other peoples bummers and how they handle their journey is helpful for sure. As I said I have been here for 18 months and aside from getting past the initial BD or shock and me making a few adjustments I have a lot of room for improvement. 

  The other day my W and I were talking and I had been feeling pretty good about us, well I try to tell her how good I feel we were doing and I was trying to get all warm a fuzzy feeling and she replies that I have more work to do. My wife is a smart woman and I feel she has been working on herself she spends a lot of time on her computer as I do and I do not let her know what I am doing, so heck she could be doing the same thing that I am, I HOPE ANYWAY.

  Over a year ago she commented on some of her childhood issues and I think she was trying to put them to rest these were things she never told me before and she only mentioned them to me that one time, her issues were things I really rather not say what they are she had a very tough childhood is what I will say.

  My W had a long list of things about me that she did not like and they dated back to when we first married I felt that I did not do anything right our whole marriage but what she was saying is it is something that I do over and over again. A similar trait used a little different maybe each time but the same habit 5 or 6 things used a little differently can equal 30 things that she did not like. But repeating these things over and over will wear on a person. She told me at the time those things were not worth fighting over for her. At BD she told me that she is not the same person and never will be that person again and she will now fight for what she feels is right. I am a little slow but I will get it right one day soon.

  After writing this I almost feel that my wife has been standing for me waiting for me to catch up with her, like I said she is a smart one and she says she does a lot of research on the internet.  Hfb

[WarriorPriestess]

HFB, you are so earnest and open in your posts.  I wish I had an easy answer to give you.  Here are some things that have helped me.  Maybe they will help you.

When I first came on this board I spent a long time reading before I started posting.  I read all the articles, the links, the stickies, etc.  I also read a lot of individual threads.  I found some that I related to, and some that I didn't.  I kept reading and following the individuals that I related to, and that I found inspiring.  Eventually I started posting and sharing my own experiences as well.

When people say "work on yourself" and "get a life" it can start to sound a bit simplistic or cliched.  But the idea is to get out of the mentality of focusing on the MLCer and "getting them to come back" to the relationship.  People often make the mistake of either trying to change the MLCer or changing themselves to get the MLCer back.  Both are an exercise in futility.  We can only ever truly control ourselves.

Here are some things to think about.  Are there any books you've wanted to read but never did?  Any movies you've always wanted to see?  Any hobbies or sports that you would like to do?  Now would be a perfect time.  It is a good distraction from focusing on the MLCer (GAL) but also will make you a more well rounded person. 

We all know that the MLCer is processing and facing personal issues throughout the crisis.  I have found that as I go through this process over time as well, I too am coming face to face with my own repressed or unresolved issues.  Some I was not even consciously aware of until they were triggered by the MLC.  I am working on ways to accept and integrate these into myself.  I am working on ways to be a better person, to be happier, to be kinder, to be at peace. 

Many people have found inspiration in their spiritual path.  Recently I have found a a great deal of wisdom in Buddhist practice.  I posted a few articles on my last thread that helped me a lot.  I am realizing that life is so short.  It truly is a waste to spend any more time than necessary being unhappy.  Happiness comes from within.  I can't control what happens to me.  I can control my attitude.  THAT has been one of my biggest lessons so far. 

[hobo1]

HB-  thanks so much for your detailed response.  I really appreciate it.  While going through your transition, you were facing unresolved issues from your childhood, and had to 'relive' everything.  How did that happen?  Did you 'relive' this in your mind?  Was it like daydreaming?  Is that why they want to be left alone - to relive things?

My W is caring for our two young kids, do I need to be concerned that she can't care for them?  She was a SAHM for over 10 years.  Now she has to go and look for a job, and a place to live all with no money.  How can she do that, and also go through this pain, and 'reliving' and resolving these issues.?

It does make sense because she does have a lot of childhood issues, and abandonment issues with her mother. 
She also has to do a lot of the things you've mentioned.  She was also a people pleaser - and I was always the one who likes to control things.  I've also had a rough childhood, so I am afraid that at some point in the future, I will be going through this.

I wonder if it helps that we are aware of it.  Yes, I've told my wife that I loved her unconditionally, and love is a choice, it is a verb, in addition to a feeling.  She just said she can't feel the love.  I asked if it was only to me, or to everyone, in the beginning, she said she didnt know....  but over time, she told me that it was just me...  and that she's made up her mind.   For the past year, she's done nothing but distance from me.  She refuses to admit that she is going through this, and is always angry.

She's said and done so many things that I really don't know if I can forgive or forget.  Thanks so much for shedding the light that you do.

[hopingfourbetter]

Hey WP,
  I have read quite a lot on here, perhaps I should fallback and read again. My first time when I read I was in a fog and a hurry to get the answers I felt I needed. I suppose if there was an easy answer we would possibly not be here right. I am writing my thoughts and hoping . Maybe what is said will help someone or someone will see something that will help. I expect no miracle to happen and I know this process takes time.

  I do write here on the life two thread because I know it has a better chance of being read. Hfb

[WarriorPriestess]

Hey HFB, you might also try posting on other people's threads.  They will probably start posting back on yours.  Some great friendships can spring up on this board if you reach out. 

Another thought I had, bouncing off of my previous post here:  Try rephrasing "Work on yourself" to "Get to know yourself" or even "Date yourself."  You know when you first start dating someone and everything is new and fresh and exciting?  That feeling of discovery and anticipation?  What if you could have that feeling every day…with yourself?! 

Sure it would be great if your spouse and/or other loved ones care to join you, but you can be secure, happy and content with yourself and your life as it is.  I believe that is a worthy goal for everyone- to be well rounded and well adjusted enough to reach that point.  And yes it is an ongoing process.  But half the fun is getting there.  It is a never ending journey, unless we choose not to move forward, but stay in place, stagnate and place control of ourselves and our lives on some outside force:  our spouse, our job, our home, whatever.

Some things I have done for myself since this MLC process started:
Began studying a new language
Practicing Buddhist mindfulness techniques
Joined a martial arts gym
Reaching out to old friends and family members
Learning more about myself, through journaling, lots of reading, prayer, meditation, and processing with a therapist friend

There are still more things that I want to do.  Now when I start obsessing on my MLCer I reach out for one of the books I still have waiting to read, I pop in a film, I go work out.  One of the best things for getting me out of my own funk is deliberately doing something to make someone else happy.  Donate to a shelter, visit a senior citizen, volunteer time or money or both.  It helps pull me out of focusing on myself, obsessing on my own problems, and realize how good I really do have it compared to so many in this world.

[HeartsBlessing]

HB-  thanks so much for your detailed response.  I really appreciate it.  While going through your transition, you were facing unresolved issues from your childhood, and had to 'relive' everything.  How did that happen?  Did you 'relive' this in your mind?  Was it like daydreaming?  Is that why they want to be left alone - to relive things?

It was like watching "home movies" in my mind if that makes any sense...the events I was seeing were as if they had happened just the day before; and in my mind, I did, 'relive' each event in question.

From the aspect of where I was in my facing, instead of where I had once been, I was more able to figure out how to face, resolve, and heal each one.....they didn't come forward all at one time, they came one at a time.

It wasn't like daydreaming for me; most of my facing came at night when I was trying to go to sleep...during the day, there were so much going on, and so many distractions; not to mention I had to still function at my job, and deal with people, so I would put it "on hold", until I was alone again.
It is true they want to be left alone to deal with themselves, it's easier that way...and I wasn't any different.

As a child, I didn't have the necessary tools to process, therefore, I had various areas of damage that came forth because I wasn't mature enough in my mind to process...and even during puberty, I wasn't mature enough mentally, nor emotionally to handle what had happened to me....but by the time I reached Mid Life, however, I was mentally mature enough to figure out what I needed to do.  Once I had figured it out, then, I applied what I'd learned, emotionally; and started making changes based on what I'd learned.

Forgiveness was also a very necessary part of my facing within.

My W is caring for our two young kids, do I need to be concerned that she can't care for them?  She was a SAHM for over 10 years.  Now she has to go and look for a job, and a place to live all with no money.  How can she do that, and also go through this pain, and 'reliving' and resolving these issues.?

I imagine she figures this out as she goes forward, just like I had to.  Life continues to happen, in spite of a MLC/MLT; and one must still try to continue to have some kind of balance in their lives.

It's not easy to try and balance what you're doing, with what is happening within..but some do manage to get it done...although it may take a little longer because life doesn't stop because one is in Transition or Crisis.

I worked full time driving an 18 wheeler; I still do that today.  The only problem I remember really having was trying to follow directions, and I got lost more times, and took more wrong turns than I wanted to during that time.

I dealt in the best way that I could and I'm sure your wife is doing the same...it's hard, I know it is.

It does make sense because she does have a lot of childhood issues, and abandonment issues with her mother. 
She also has to do a lot of the things you've mentioned.  She was also a people pleaser - and I was always the one who likes to control things.  I've also had a rough childhood, so I am afraid that at some point in the future, I will be going through this.

I wonder if it helps that we are aware of it.

Well, it does help some to be aware of what you may be facing going forward.   I was aware going in, and I was aware during my times of various decisions I was faced with.
I kept in mind that the only way was THROUGH; and there were NO shortcuts to get to the other side.  Even though I forgot some things, and had to relearn them from a different aspect, I stayed aware as much as I possibly could.

The foggy side of things were scary for me; as I struggled against losing what was left of my mind; that was my perception at that point.    I wasn't really losing my mind, but at times it sure felt like it.  The pain within made me tired, irritable, depressed, and it seemed everything was getting on my nerves.

Yes, I've told my wife that I loved her unconditionally, and love is a choice, it is a verb, in addition to a feeling.  She just said she can't feel the love.  I asked if it was only to me, or to everyone, in the beginning, she said she didnt know....  but over time, she told me that it was just me...  and that she's made up her mind.   For the past year, she's done nothing but distance from me.  She refuses to admit that she is going through this, and is always angry.

I, too, remember the anger which burned very hot within me....everything my husband did got on my nerves, even calling just to check on me would get me going.

It wasn't any different when I dealt with him, and the shoe had been on the other foot....I gained a great deal of Insight out the experience...and realized that some of the anger he'd shown was because he felt like he was "rubbed  raw" emotionally; and it was tedious for him.

Well, I had that same experience; and I remember feeling SO bad each time I bit his head off, but I couldn't do anything about it; it wasn't him it was ME.

Her crisis is really working on her at this point; and it's not unusual to distance farther away for a time, then come back in closer; cycling is a part of the process.   Most MLC'ers who refuse to admit they are going through a crisis or just something hard, think if they admit they're facing something that is beyond their own control, then they must be defective or going crazy.
They think it's better to just deny it, than to admit it...it's part of the running they can do, but the Crisis continues right on within them.

If she doesn't see it now, she'll most likely see it later on...they KNOW, in spite all of their denials, they do know something's not right within them.

She's said and done so many things that I really don't know if I can forgive or forget.

I can understand that very well, as  I struggled hard with forgiving my husband for all he'd done; and I struggled even harder with the idea that if I forgave him, he just might do what he did all over again.
Forgiveness is for you, not the person who wrongs you....and you must figure this out within and for yourself.  It's a process that one does not have to go through, but if you don't, your anger at her actions could become bitterness at a later time.

Thanks so much for shedding the light that you do.

You're welcome; I give a lot of thought to every response I make to someone's question; and though I often run long, I would rather make sure they understand the first time, if possible..if not, I do encourage the asking of questions until comprehension is gained. 

I do what I can to help; I've been there myself on side or the other; and I don't mind sharing what I have learned and what I know with others.   The advice can used, thrown away, take it or leave it; it's out there to be read; understood, and hopefully used to help people to grow, and become better than before.

Take what you need, and leave the rest is something I've always said, as it won't make me mad if it's not taken...it's not my life, it's yours.    Someone else might need what's written down; who knows? 

Take care of yourself, Hobo.

Hugs to you,
HB

[Thundarr]

Catching up from earlier today as the thread moves very fast (which is good).

"Dating yourself"?  Interesting concept, but a paradox in many ways.

Hobo/ TB - It's great that after so long in this you are finally getting the answers you have been searching for.  As Doc says, that spaceship has to crash sooner rather than later and you will decide where you will be when it does.  I think we both know, but this changes us all.  Thanks for being there, my friend.

Limitless - What you wrote was profound and maybe the best post I've ever seen from you, and that is saying alot.  I'll admit that I do relate with the LBS guy at your work from time to time, but honestly I feel I've been doing a great job with detaching and focusing on work and the kids and it's paid wonderful dividends.  I am much more balanced now and have returned to a place of peace much sooner than in the past.  For a full explanation of why everything happened yesterday you can check my thread and it may shed a different light on things, but I won't burden this thread down with that is it is meant to be a free-flowing discussion.

On that note, I address this to RCR.  I have nothing but the utmost respect for you and appreciation for what you are hoping to accomplish.  In many ways you and I are like-minded souls and hopefully one day I will have the impact that you have on those who are in pain and in need of support and encouragement.  What you have accomplished is nothing short of remarkable and yet you appear to have no desire to "get rich" off of your contributions.  That is perhaps what impresses me the most, and I do accept the majority of your research on MLC and WAS's.

But, I do feel that in some ways things have begun to get out of control.  Perhaps it has to do with the influx of new people over the past year as this board has grown by leaps and bounds since I joined last July.  At that time it was very centralized and seemed to have a definite focus that reflected your own philosophy.  Now I feel that there are factions branching off and not only skewing some of the information but also tending to form their own philosophy which bleeds onto the board as accepted fact when often it is purely opinion or even misunderstood interpretations.  I don't think anyone means to do harm, but it does seem that the message you brought has been somewhat mis-construed by many on here, including veterans and moderators at times.  I also think that strong personalities often overshadow the messages of hope and kindness that makes up the mission statement.  The end result of this is that thoughts and opinions that are different than the "norm" are often unsafe to bring forward, and I feel that many either silence themselves or don't find the courage to post for fear of being attacked or ganged up on by those who think their opinion is correct.

I don't mean this as a complaint or against any one person or group (although we all know there are cliques here and for the most part that's not harmful) but rather as an observation from the "peanut gallery" so to speak.  I am eternally grateful for the work of HB, OP, Limitless, Shantilly, Ready, Stayed and and many others as well as yourself who have made this board what it is today and continue to pay it forward.  There would be many more lost souls out there if not for you guys.  If you would like further clarification or examples of what I'm talking about I would be happy to PM you as I want to see this board live on for years to come.

Peace to you all.

[Dontgiveup]

I also think it would be an excellent idea for you to go back and read the articles again.  The articles are beneficial thoughout the MLC process and can add credibility as you witness your MLCer do the behaviors they inform you about.

Below are some examples from the articles that offer insight on what you've written

My W had a long list of things about me that she did not like and they dated back to when we first married I felt that I did not do anything right our whole marriage but what she was saying is it is something that I do over and over again.

From RCR's article Midlife Crisis Takes Time
Though no one is perfect, in the beginning you will search your own behaviour for what went wrong. Since the MLCer often offers a long list of your transgressions, it is not a difficult search. In the beginning, many LBS's accept this blame, using it as the excuse for the bad marriage. For many experiencing this crisis in their marriage, there was no bad marriage. Though nothing is perfect, many problems were not significant enough to warrant danger. The problem is the Midlife Crisis.

At BD she told me that she is not the same person and never will be that person again and she will now fight for what she feels is right. I am a little slow but I will get it right one day soon.

From RCR's article Stories and Human Behavior
The person who comes through the MLC tunnel may be vastly different than the person who entered the tunnel and different than the possibly multiple personalities in the tunnel. How your MLCer is now is not indicative of who he might become.