[Mermaid]

I wonder how we can bump up old posts? I've found an old one I posted on the iChing, http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=218.135 and wonder whether to post again, or bump it up for those who may be interested or find it useful.

[calamity]

I think this is correct way of asking for responses:  I am having difficulty with detachment.  I need a new way of looking at it; I have read the articles on HS & the AA approach & Livestrong but I am not getting my mind around it.  Any ideas?

[Moving Forward]

Hello Calamity J,
This is a very difficult skill to learn but is fundamental to navigating your MLCer's crisis - I read articles on here, followed rabbit warrens through the internet - you know bouncing from one site and link to another - it remained elusive and I would put myself under pressure to look detached - but it isn't about looking detached it is about feeling 'lovingly detached' from your MLCer and their behaviours.

I realised that I just had to practice with every single interaction with my exH, whether in person or when my mind wandered to him and what he was doing, and eventually it just clicked. So my advice to you would be to be vigilent to your emotional responses when you think about your H or he is in touch with you or someone tells you something about him and his life.

I learned to take a deep breath and mull it over and I asked myself a few simple questions like:-

1. so what does that actually mean to me??
2. what are my options right now (the good, the bad, the kind, the wicked)?
3. do I actually have to respond to this?? (more often than not I didn't have to respond!!)
4. what is my best response to this (often it was to do nothing)?
5.  am I actually trying to exert control in this situation (answer honestly MF)?
6. when is the last time I actually need to do anything with this?

Eventually, so many of the interactions with my exH became very quick to decipher, kind of like 'yup, this is MLC script, he is still in a dark place, default position MF' - it wasn't always easy but like a dripping tap fills a bath so my skills at being 'lovingly detached' grew.

I still have my off days - only last week I was tired and very busy and my exH was hassling me about something and I replied to a text with 'grow up exH' and that unleashed a torrent of abuse from him. Sooooooooo, I stepped back and regrouped and didn't take the bait! All the clues are there - he is still in MLC and I am still handling the fallout and moving my life forward.

Keep practising and I believe you will get there.

((hugs))

P
x

[Niek]

I have got a question about projection. My H projects all his negativity onto me. Most of the things he accuses me of are features of his mother and some are his own. I am negative, I am a black and white person, I cannot take a look at myself, I only criticize him, I am unable to give love to people, I can never apologize, I am never grateful etc. etc. What I am curious about is will a person in MLC ever see that these projections belong to themselves or will they continue to see the LBS, as in my case, as his mother?

[calamity]

Brilliant Movingforward,  I copied that to my detachment file.  So glad I asked.

Niek, from what I have read he won't even remember what he has said or thought during this time.  Consider each point & forget it.  It's just trying to shift blame for his behaviour on you.

[NoRegrets]

I have got a question about projection. My H projects all his negativity onto me. Most of the things he accuses me of are features of his mother and some are his own. I am negative, I am a black and white person, I cannot take a look at myself, I only criticize him, I am unable to give love to people, I can never apologize, I am never grateful etc. etc. What I am curious about is will a person in MLC ever see that these projections belong to themselves or will they continue to see the LBS, as in my case, as his mother?

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc.html

Blaming or Projecting
In order to avoid Self-reflection and responsibility, the MLCer blames the spouse. Often he will rewrite history, stating the marriage has been falling apart for years. Midlifers hurl accusations: you are the bad guy, you are in denial, you are the one who is confused, you are vindictive; often these are all things the MLCer subconsciously feels about himself.

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_shadow_projection.html

Projection

Projection delegates power to an external source, making that source responsible for success and failure as well as joy and misery. Projection enables a person to both avoid looking internally to resolve problems--as well to avoid self-appreciation.

Idolization is a projection of hero-worship wherein a person projects his divine needs onto another, attempting to make the other into a god. An OW is often the object of idol-projection and the spouse the object of demon-projection. The OW is all good, can do no wrong and will make his life happy; his wife is to blame for everything that is going wrong, and has and will continue to make his life miserable, she is angry, manipulative and unstable--all qualities he is refusing to acknowledge in himself. Refusal of projection is not possible if the object of projection also denies and refuses her own Shadow, thus it is of utmost importance that an MLCer's spouse (Standing or not) work through her own Shadow journey, integrating her Shadow by way of self-focus. To yield to physical intimacy is to unite--becoming one flesh, and to become one, the two must be of balanced matter. To yield is thus an admission that the other is either not divine or that both are divine. The latter is hubris and the former results in a disappointing crash for the man who placed a burden of divinity on his partner.

A man rescued his wife in the I Do and yet he failed for she remained, or rather she became mere flesh and blood. He thus remains a questing knight--for the projections of a true king do not fail but instead disintegrate, falling away to reveal the woman beneath. Years of Accommodation follow the initial in-fatuation, causing a reinterpretation of marital and relational history, which without the filter of Accommodation is not an untruth but a changed perspective. Since he surrendered responsibility for completeness to his wife, she is thus to blame when he realizes he is incomplete; everything is her fault.

In MLC, after years of marriage, when the in-fatuation hormones have long since waned and are no longer in possession, a man recognizes his wife as a flesh woman rather than a divine goddess. But without an integrated anima he searches for divinity in another woman in whom he can surrender responsibility of his completeness--continuing the cycle of projection. An OW is new, not having failed him she is seemingly without flaws, thus he can project his expectations for feminine divinity onto her, while simultaneously projecting his demons onto his wife--the woman who failed him because she lost her divinity when like Lucifer, she fell. If his abandoned wife does not bother to look beyond his surface actions into the projection and symbolism, the two cannot reconcile later. For reconciliation and understanding of the journey she must not take his actions and projections personally, but look beyond to what is being projected and why.

A person must explore and discover his limitations before he can experience the crush of failure that will break open the skies to apotheosis, the attainment realized from the bursting development and energy released from breaking through limitations. Projection can be a bridge connecting us to the world. It is often first through projection that we meet our Shadow and take our first steps toward awareness, for it is by acknowledging something outside of ourselves that we come to acknowledge it within. The error is when we use projection as a barrier to maintain separateness and are thus destructive to both the projector and the object of projection.

________________________________________
Peter Pan cut away his shadow, he thus had no dark side, no repressions, nothing hidden or in his depths. He was thus chronologically stunted; without his shadow there was no possibility for maturation. Peter Pan was a puer aeternus--eternal boy, for a man this is a person who is physically mature and yet remains emotionally in adolescence. Like an animated photograph, Peter Pan was frozen in time. If a moment frozen in time is worth a thousand words, imagine the value of a lifetime of moments. Projection and the splitting of the psyche into conscious and unconscious and are necessary elements toward objectively viewing Self, learning about Self and from that experience reintegrating. Though it is not possible to go back, making as Jung says a regressive restoration of the persona, the Shadow remains undeveloped as though in Eden. Re-entrance requires an integration of simple innocence and wizened experience.

[willitgetbetter]

My current thread:

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2535.msg155353#msg155353

Dear Mentors:

I have a question about where my H may be in the crisis. He has made quite a few leaps in connecting, but I think he still talks to OW, even if he doesn't see her, because he still has a password on his phone.

For example, he is, for the past 2 months or so, now kissing me regularly, not just sexual passionate wise but kisses on the forehead or my shoulder or my neck. He gives me hugs, back massages, and does stuff for me.  He refers to me and introduces me as his wife again now. And refers to himself as my husband. Wants to have sex with me all the time. Wants me to watch TV or movies with him now, will call me in the room to show me something. Holds my hand or pulls me down on the bed for a bear hug or a kiss when I wake him up for work. Gives me money and lets me hold his checkbook and write checks on his bank account and even sign his name. Wants me to go with him to the store. Calls or texts me from work regularly. Talks to me about his day. Doesn't go out all the time, never stays out overnight anymore. Thanks me for little things, like passing him a tissue or getting him a drink. He does leave his phone in his pants or jacket sometimes overnight now, and not by his side as a crutch all the time. He also talks in the future, for example, a few days ago he said "If you have a good job next year, we are definitely joining the pool. I will be there everyday after work in the summer." Wow, a "commitment" a whole year from now he is contemplating?! LOL

And there have been times when I threw truth darts at him and he has responded by hugging or kissing me and rubbing my back. One time he said "I cant know how you feel." Almost an apology, but at least recognition. A year ago I was virtually invisible. My daughter was also invisible, mostly after I filed for D in December. Since about April, he spends time with her, tickles her constantly, tells her he loves her and that she is his best friend, buys her candy and is the dad that he used to be with her. Which is nice to see again.

As I also stated on my thread. The card that I gave him in March 2012 saying that I don't want the divorce or want him to leave, fell down off of the mirror visor in the passenger seat in his car the other day. The card fell right into my lap. I was floored. Not that he kept it, but that it would be in such an open place where OW or anyone else could find it, as I did. I expected that he would have tucked it away, not have it in somewhat plain view. I take this as a good sign, that maybe he isn't picking her up and spending time with her since then.


Does this change from virtually no affection and attention to alot mean maybe he is exiting replay, even though he may still be in phone contact with OW?  I don't know if they can shift to cycle consistently towards you in replay. He isn't really cycling away anymore. Guess it could happen again, but its been at least a month or two where it has been only upwards.

Maybe its that he is cycling away from OW more and towards me now? I did start to implement GAL, going out almost once every weekend, not reacting to him, etc... and he started to pay more attention to me and become more affectionate.

And even if he is cycling away from OW, it hasn't gotten rid of my anger and empty hole that I feel that she was ever even in the picture, and that she was gloating about it in code on her FB page, all the while enjoying my pain. The thought of him even still talking to her, even if he is trying to withdraw, still makes my blood boil. I know that the OW is just a bandaid, but I need help in forgetting about her. Is that possible or reasonable of me to think I can accomplish this as long as I think he is still communicating with her, even if just by phone? Because the fact that he communicates with her by phone makes me think, when he says he is going somewhere, that maybe he is really going to see her.

Thank you and bless you all.

[Moving Forward]

Niek,
You asked about 'projection' - this link should take you to a nice article which helped me understand the dynamic.

http://suite101.com/article/what-is-projection-a60383

NR's response is great within the MLC arena but we are surrounded by projection of other peoples thoughts and feelings every day.

[underpressure]

Hi Mentors,

Here is a link to my thread (it's a couple weeks old).
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2630.0

I would like input on my situation. I am certainly the Left-Behind-Spouse. But I may also be the MLC-er (I had an EA that started July 2011 and became somewhat physical at the end of August, then a PA in September. It ended in October. Throughout this time I saw the OM very seldom (he lived 8 hours away) but I spent a lot of time on the phone with him, and in e-messages. My H left in October and filed for divorce the beginning of November. We started counseling around mid November.

I made a lot of mistakes. I was really scared. And I was really scared BEFORE the affair. Of what? My husband's power. The power balance in our relationship had been very one-sided for a long time. At least that's how it seemed to me. But enough to make me really afraid. He was emotionally and verbally abusive. He was also depressed.

The mistakes I made: I started out denying the affair. Then I denied it was anything other than an emotional affair. I denied sex occurred until January 2012. When I finally told him in the counselor's office he said I had saved the marriage. A few days later he canceled our counseling and told me he had signed a 2-year lease. He doesn't ask me questions about the affair, he just makes statements, some of which are true, some of which are absolutely not true, and I try to argue with him about them.

Before I started chatting online with the alienator, in fact the week that I did, it had already been several days of H not speaking with me, or even looking at me as he passed me in the hall. This was because he felt I had spent too much money on lego toys for our child. I had asked for a budget. He refused saying I would never stick to it so whats the point. But if the conversation even went that far at that time I am not sure. Mostly he just told me he was filing for divorce.

He has threatened me many times with this divorce thing. Now he has actually filed.

I'd like to Stand for my marriage no matter what. I feel I can contribute to this forum by sharing my experience from the other side of the tracks. I feel awful about everything I have done, but am able to talk about it and eager to process it. If I must try to save my marriage alone, I will.

My affair was triggered by a horrible feeling of crisis inside myself. Some of which was triggered by extreme vulnerability caused, sorry to say, by my husbands constant threats which put me right back into the feeling of being 12 years old again and raped by a 18-21 year old male. It's something I buried, but it was on the surface always and so much of my life has been spent acting out this pain. But that's not all that I am...the feeling that that is all i am is what happens when I am in a situation where I am being controlled by fear.

So many things to sort out. But when I first read the material here I really thought my H was in the throws of a MLC as well. Now I am not sure. Even if he has a PD, I want to save my marriage. I want to remain open about it and really grow and improve and take responsibility. I want to be able to separate out the hurt he is feeling that has nothing to do with me from the hurt I caused him and find calmness...forgivenes...not be constantly shocked by what he does and constantly afraid.

I am on what feels like a march to the cliff. Our divorce comes to the judge October 8 of this year. He is supportive some of the time, but people are telling me that he is doing that to make me more malleable or to blindsight me so he can really screw me over. He told me directly thursday night he wants full custody of our child!!!

Is there any way that you can help me, from your own experiences with your spouse's infidelity, to heal my marriage, and handle him in the right way? Rules? What did you need from your spouse to be able to forgive?
And am I totally off-base to think that he is in a long-drawn out replay mode, (he bought his MLC sportscar the month our son was born saying "there is no room in it for a baby, or groceries" and then took his daughter with him to El Salvador for several weeks with the parish to fantasize he was 'Father Romeo' while our child was a newborn!)  I guess what I need to know is if I can apply principles from the MLC analysis to my husband even if I am the one with the most overt and recent MLC.

It's really complicated, I know. Can someone help?

I have responded on your thread. 
limitless

[Rollercoasterider]

NoPressure,
The mods asked me to post to you and I've been working on a response for a few days now.