[Medusa]

I'm not sure this will help you, Army, but here's my experience.

At BD, I got "this love there but it's not enough", whatever that means.

He told me he was in love with her, me probably because his MO was to make him leave the hose and he was too cowardly to do it himself.

On Friday, I watched him reacting to OW at his mothers funeral. Part of him was embarrassed to have her there, I suspect (but don't know) because he did not reach out to touch her a single time; rather, she touched him. Why was he embarrassed? Well, having both your wife and your girlfriend at your Mom's funeral is likely a rather uncomfortable situation...

Typically the OP is a symptom. The way I came to understand this was remembering long, long ago how I felt about my first boyfriend. Yes, I loved him (at the ripe age of 15), but now that I'm a wee bit older, I see that was really just infatuation and that he was filling a need I had. This is where I remember the man I'm married to feels the love he has (had?) for me isn't enough. It isn't because he no longer loves himself and he needs OW (and her fat butt) to act as a band-aid and distract him from whatever his real problems are.

Can the love change? I believe it can. But for me, it doesn't matter, anymore. He feels how he feels and, really, its none of my business.

[ArmySpouse]

ArmySpouse,  I can only answer based on what my H said to me.  We are reconciled and honestly have not talked too much about his love for OW2.  I have not idea what he "felt" for OW1 as I was unaware of her, unaware of his crisis until OW2 was in the picture.  All I know about OW1 was he ended it as he thought it was about to become a PA rather than the EA that it was.
While he was with OW2, he actually said to me, I LOVE HER,  she is the person that I want to talk with and be with....
but after the tunnel, after he came through he said, I NEVER LOVED HER.  So to me that said that he was merely infatuated with her and with the idea of her and a life with her.   I do not feel he loved her, it was more of an addiction to her.
Not sure if that helps....
31andcounting

You actually helping me a lot because mine started out with a emotional thing and I think a has become physical I thought course I have no proof but I would be very surprised if it would've not.  But the signs are there and his behavior shows too.

 so it was just the fantasyland  :)at the fog provided and and all of that stuff around with her so that I'm also wondering why that takes a long to realize is just fantasies ..
 usually infatuation wears off after six months  but a lot of them have affairs for as long as two years !

 He's convinced he has a life with her and plans his military retirement and in about six years with her and of course he would never admit it!  I overheard a phone conversation ,he's planning for the future children... mind you he is fixed since last year thank God !!
 when I told him if he told her- he said "yes and I already looked into getting it reversed"  .. As if it was that easy ..

Ditto 31 ! Your husband project own anima in that OW2, so he idealized her when he were in FOG, after he go out from MLC  FOG and projection go away and reality kicks in.

But I thought I read somewhere that even if they wake up sometimes they are so deep in and feel obligated...   that they will drag the affair along into the next stage and worst-case Marry that person because they think they have made a commitment and do not know anymore ,how to get away and when They have lost ready everything so I have to make this work.. ..

I'm not sure this will help you, Army, but here's my experience.

At BD, I got "this love there but it's not enough", whatever that means.

He told me he was in love with her, me probably because his MO was to make him leave the hose and he was too cowardly to do it himself.

On Friday, I watched him reacting to OW at his mothers funeral. Part of him was embarrassed to have her there, I suspect (but don't know) because he did not reach out to touch her a single time; rather, she touched him. Why was he embarrassed? Well, having both your wife and your girlfriend at your Mom's funeral is likely a rather uncomfortable situation...

Typically the OP is a symptom. The way I came to understand this was remembering long, long ago how I felt about my first boyfriend. Yes, I loved him (at the ripe age of 15), but now that I'm a wee bit older, I see that was really just infatuation and that he was filling a need I had. This is where I remember the man I'm married to feels the love he has (had?) for me isn't enough. It isn't because he no longer loves himself and he needs OW (and her fat butt) to act as a band-aid and distract him from whatever his real problems are.

Can the love change? I believe it can. But for me, it doesn't matter, anymore. He feels how he feels and, really, its none of my business.

Lol at the fat butt comment... I always say that she has small titties

Maybe he was embarrassed by the situation is and maybe start to wake up and sees what kind of BS he's doing right there and what people are thinking?  If you was clearly not happy but of course he would never admit that he would say to you he's very happy same like all would...

Anyways.

 Yes I know it is just a symptom and he will (hopefully not for him) but some of them run through a lot of symptoms before they wake up I just hope you will not become a male ow until he figures that whole thing out ..  However I think he will be in at least for another year..

Same like it seems to him that I am the bad one and the answer to all the bad feeling and as soon as he gets rid of me he would feel better.. but he will soon see this is not the case either ..and this is a big mistake as well just like the other person and.

So here's the next question:
If the midlife crisis person just projects himself or his needs or whatever he's looking for into her and is infatuated has his "knight in shining armor" syndrome filled- and all the other stuff that he needs;  what about the other person? can the other person be really be in love with that midlife crises spouse?

Because our spouses are exactly opposite to what they usually are, right ...
so are their attractions and everything else ..so they would never normally look at a person like this in real life again if they are normal ..however those other people are broken and have some kind of behavioral disorders or other crap going on ..

so do they on the other hand really love my spouse?

(  for all these are their needs just filled as well? And I Am wondering how the other person feels after the midlife crisis person dumps them, when they grew and go the next step into their development... if for them that was a real relationship or is it just a filled need as well...?)

[Songanddance]

what about the other person? can the other person be really be in love with that midlife crises spouse?

This is too subjective to answer in generalities.  The OP may believe they are in love; however they are invariably broken for their own reasons and love may mean a whole host of things to them. For some - love means taking what they get from the MLCer because they never received this level of attention from anyone else.  RCR points out that some OW/OM are often possibly in MLC themselves.

RCR writes a really good article on Love and Infatuation.  Read that and perhaps it will help.

[ArmySpouse]

 That woman he is dealing with is certainly not in MLC as she is 28 years old ..

 My husband is 37 ..

 however as far as I know (and I've done some research on her in the early stages), she was brought up by her mom only , is a single child and I think her father abandoned her  or is not in her life right now either .. ..so I think she also has a father complex that my husband of course now totally fills.. besides they are having to same career ! So she feels validated through him ..

 I have overheard a phone conversation where he had to build her up and acknowledge and encourage her so my perspective is she has a histrionic disorder possibly ..

It also makes sense when it comes to her having two interviews in the local newspaper, being involved with the Jewish community (as some spokes person or something like that) and also her being converted from a Christian to a Jew ...(because of some stuff she has seen as a kid someone teasing some Jewish kid and she didn't like it and because of her uncle that was Jewish) and then the other thing was for her to join the army ..

I have to explain that:
In Germany Girls usually do not join the army and Germany is not as patriotic towards the military service as America ..and that for it is kind of weird.
.I wouldnt say its "frowned up upon " to join the army due to our history maybe ..but it is just weird if somebody joins the army especially for a woman ..so that is all attention seeking flags for me ..

[Medusa]

Personally, I don't care how OP feels. Her, her fat butt and her bit boobs don't mean anything to me. If she gets hurt because her boyfriend dumps her, she should have been prepared. These sorts of things sometimes happen when you get involved with a married man.

Just sayin'.

Can they really be in love with a person in MLC? I think so--as much as a broken, possibly narcissistic individual can be in love with someone else. Remember, Army, they never knew the people we knew. They know the broken shell of a human being, and one of the purposes of the OP is to prop up the MLCer and convince him he's worthy.

The OP has his/her own agenda, and as S&D said, it's very subjective.

I've wondered since BD if OW is also MLC. She's the right age, and considering what I witnessed, it's very possible.

Attention seeking is something the OP does. Again I witnessed OW do this at MILs funeral. It was revolting. She has a history of it through their relationship. She ups the ante when she feels threatened.

Read the article. It's very helpful. All you really need to know about her is that she's willing to have an affair with a married man. Any woman willing to do that has issues. Where they come from is irrelevant.

[hawk]

With mine , l can only say from the outside and just in knowing how things appear bc l will never talk to w about that.

But it's def' effected her differently to when we were in love.
We had the ultimate in love , we were as high as a kite 24/7 just being around each other . And w just beamed her bubbly happy laid back personality.
She has never beamed that with him but bc it was under these circumstances and the stresses and emotions it must have been in leaving us and starting over like this well , maybe it's all that ldk.
But she isn't that person now or has been right through all this . she's strung out, moody, changes like the weather and just lately l notice that empty look in her, people often talk about with theirs.

So even if it is genuine in love with om , it sure isn't bringing out the best in her or the girl l knew.
She was in a pretty bad emotional state at bd and had been for a yr or 2 and going through a lot of stuff she hid from me. ; And l do know she felt he helped all that somehow at the time , but with the stuff above l was saying , l just can't see how it can be all good these days.

Still , she could turn round and tell me they're getting married tomorrow , who knows , nothing would surprise me tbh.

[lawprofessor]

With J, his OW married three other men (separate times) each time they split up.  Once within 2 weeks of them splitting.  Each time she got married she cheated on her husband with J numerous times.  She still would.  He just got bored with the game after awhile.  It is the addiction issue.  She is addicted to him while he is no longer addicted to her.  He told me at first that she was fun and free.  Later as he got healthier, he told me that he always knew she would be gone when the money was gone.  Now that he is back on his feet, she is back to messaging him again.  She is currently on her 6th husband.  He bought her a house and a car and also pays all the bills.  Still it is not enough.  Everything is about what she can get out of the relationship. 

With my ex, he never claimed to be in love with the little girl.  Instead he said to others that she made him feel something, that she would never leave him, that she made him feel almost alive again.  He told me the young kids he was running around with had such hope for the future and big dreams that he was scared to lose that.  He said he felt such respect and admiration when he was around them that he didn't know if he could live without it.  I asked him what they have in common and he replied, They are so full of life, full of happiness and hope for he future.  For the most part he did not differentiate her from the other 20 something's he was with. 

I still remember a message she sent him begging him to let her stay with him and that she didn't know if she would continue to exist that far away from him.  His reply was to leave her alone in Russia for 4 extra days, a country that she did not know the language or customs, to come home early simply because he did not want to spend an additional $47 to fly back on the same day as she did.  True love? 

Once my ex and I were talking.  I told him the little matters zero to me, she is no threat to me and of zero interest to me.  He spit and sputtered for a minute and finally said, "well she must matter to someone a bit because she is a person."  True love? 

Best LP

[Medusa]

LP, what great stuff! True love, indeed!

Would he have spent $23.50, do you think?

[ArmySpouse]

Personally, I don't care how OP feels. Her, her fat butt and her bit boobs don't mean anything to me. If she gets hurt because her boyfriend dumps her, she should have been prepared. These sorts of things sometimes happen when you get involved with a married man.

Just sayin'.

Can they really be in love with a person in MLC? I think so--as much as a broken, possibly narcissistic individual can be in love with someone else. Remember, Army, they never knew the people we knew. They know the broken shell of a human being, and one of the purposes of the OP is to prop up the MLCer and convince him he's worthy.

The OP has his/her own agenda, and as S&D said, it's very subjective.

I've wondered since BD if OW is also MLC. She's the right age, and considering what I witnessed, it's very possible.

Attention seeking is something the OP does. Again I witnessed OW do this at MILs funeral. It was revolting. She has a history of it through their relationship. She ups the ante when she feels threatened.

Read the article. It's very helpful. All you really need to know about her is that she's willing to have an affair with a married man. Any woman willing to do that has issues. Where they come from is irrelevant.

 To say that I care about her it would be definitely too much and I'm not thinking about her the way I used to in the beginning of course when you just don't understand how another woman with this do this to another woman .. Especially when she clearly saw that there were small children involved .

 I mean for me it is always that if somebody comes around and tells you he separated from his wife -why would you believe all that he says and starting something with them without the respect for the other person ? and say you know what buddy unless you are divorced and you can show me and you heal yourself I'm sorry I want nothing to do with you ...  Why is that so hard I mean why .?

 So since reading a lot I have to come brother sympathetic to her because I know she's even more broken than my husband ... I cannot forgive her yet I am not at that point but I know at one point in my life I have to do that too ... But I agree 100% and I came to the same conclusion that she doesn't know the real person that he is but the broken one and if somebody wants to be with somebody in such a horrible state of mind then good luck with that I don't understand how anybody wants to put up with anybody like that.. But of course he tells her lies to just the same as he does to me so I'm not surprised that she gets a whole different story than reality really is but she does not want to know rheology either otherwise she would see how firetrucked up this whole situation is and how a shame she should be off herself.

But of course he tells her lies to just the same as he does to me ,so I'm not surprised that she gets a whole different story than reality ...but she does not want to know reality either ! otherwise she would seen how firetrucked up this whole situation is and how a shame she should be of herself . And how sick it is to start something with a married man in any circumstances ..

 But again I went away from the circle in my head a while ago so I just needed to vent because I see that she is truly a tool ..

So I guess in her way she really loves him, because she thinks he just broken As she is but when truly he's is just a temporary state and.  So she thinks that they match .

 Ask for her agenda I agree with that hundred percent, because my husband is promotable in rank and he is already higher in rank then she is ..
 I think if he would've been just a lower rank this might've not even gone that far .. he impressed her with his stories and what he has been already in his career and I think part of it is also a jumping forward for her or so she thinks ..
 And then of course he wants to be admired for this right now so they match perfectly ..

 I can see that as soon as something happens with his career she's might dump him totally .. I don't want to say that of course she was not not attracted to him but I think his job and his position made a big deal and or a game changer as well.

 In the very beginning I actually asked him and said "don't you think that she might just use you for your rank" and he said " yes maybe... But honestly I don't really give a $h!te ..."

[hawk]

l've asked myself 100 times and pointed it out to w at bd , deaf ears of course but what sort of man would hook up with a women in wifes state at the time? Or watch her destroy a family a marriage, an 11yr old girls family?
l mean there is no way l'd wanna take that ride or responsibility.

This guy looks 40s or early 50s but very old man looking and he ain't no prince either. looks like one of these ones that still lives with his mother or something. Never been married, l'd be surprised if he's ever even had a serious relationship. He seemed totally oblivious to, to a lot of the huge issues in hanging round with a women who's just done all that and everything involved.

l've thought if he hasn't had a serious relationship at that age, then this ain't gonna gel with him as time goes on. lt could even be why they seem so on offish and her moods .