[Trustandlove]

Hello, all,

I had dinner with a female friend, acquaintance, member of our wider social circle, whatever I can call her right now, who is in full-blown MLC.  She herself describes herself as being 3 1/2years into it, but of course doesn't use the term MLC or anything like it.  She kicked her H out 2 1/2 years ago. 

I want to write about this coherently, because I really do think it is interesting for us on the other side to see what they are going through, and the ways they choose to behave to try to find what they want.  And yes, the justifications they use for it. 

In a nutshell, she is just over 50, a psychiatrist by profession, one who works with very seriously disturbed people, both with the health service and in private practice.  Three daughters, one preparing for university entrance, the others slightly younger teens. 

She married her H I think 22 years ago; perhaps 23.  She hasn't divorced him at this point.  Her H is a year or two younger than her; he came from abroad to be with her. 

I need to get my thoughts in order so that I can write properly, but what really did come out of this was that she has to go through this, all the way through, and that there isn't any way to determine the outcome.  For a long time she blamed her H totally; she is now slowly moving away from blaming him completely and starting to talk about what she is learning about herself, but I can see she is nowhere near the end of the journey. 

What is also interesting for me is that she knows EXACTLY where I stand on this, and I've never shied away from throwing truth spears -- darts wouldn't begin to cover it.  So I was actually pretty amazed that she even called and asked to see me, but she did. 

I also learned that listening to what she's trying to say is important, and that it's OK to ask questions to draw out her feelings, without every question having to contain a truth dart.  She DOES need to feel safe talking about it.  And I know that she can't do that with her H, and it's probably best that she doesn't.  She talked about how horrible an atmosphere there had been at home before they separated, that even others noticed it; I did agree that some space was a good thing, so as not to do further damage. 

Her H was standing, again without using that word, for quite a while; he does now have a GF....   don't know where that is going, though. 

She's also had one BF (or OM, as we would say here); she didn't have him at BD (don't know if they had one BD, seems it was more drawn out....) it's much more recent.  She's broken up with him now.  He was part of her 'journey'. 

she is at an interesting point; she's sort of starting to see that someone else isn't responsible for her happiness, but still thinks that her H was absolutely the wrong person....  that she didn't love him the way she thinks she should (claims that she loved this OM in a much deeper way... yada, yada).  I was careful to say that her feelings were real.   

I found that it really was important to suspend any reactions -- what she is feeling is real, even though it may be based on a false assessment of reality.  Because I'm not emotionally involved it was easier to do; I also had to tread carefully with what could seem like psycho-babble, as of course that is her profession, not mine. 

At any rate she has asked to see me again reasonably soon... 

I'm still feeling tired, so will write more on this later; I want to describe so much.  We talked for over 2 hours; I'll write as I get time and as things come back to me. 

[Thundarr]

Hey T and L, 

Thank you so much for sharing this and I look forward to hearing more.  I have to say,,though, that it's not exactly encouraging news given both the time frame as well as the fact she still thinks her H was a mistake.  I'll wait to hear more and hopefully it will help me to have a better understanding of my W.  I am curious as to why your friend is not D yet.

[honour]

I need to get my thoughts in order so that I can write properly, but what really did come out of this was that she has to go through this, all the way through, and that there isn't any way to determine the outcome.

My W spoke very little after BD before vanishing but one thing she did say was, "I can't not do this." There are very powerful impulses at the root of this nuttiness (I'm probably stating the obvious).

Thank you for this T&L. It is helpful to gain insight into the MLCer's thinking.
Very interesting that your acquaintance is a mental health care professional. Clearly knowledge is not enough to prevent this destructive behaviour.

My W's MLC coincided with menopause. T&L, has your friend mentioned menopause?

honour

[Trustandlove]

More is coming.... I'm just not there yet.

Regarding menopause; I'm actually surprised at myself that I didn't ask.  She is certainly of the age; she did say "it's very interesting being over 50", though.  It sounds like I'll see her again at the end of next month, so I'll do my best to remember to turn the subject to that; not difficult between women "of a certain age" 

I'm not trying to be encouraging or discouraging regarding the timeframe; just stating what is going on with her. 

Regarding considering her H a mistake; well, she certainly never used to; I think it's all part of the process.  When she wanted to separate from him I remember her saying "who knows, maybe we'll miss each other so much...."  I think she might even have been hoping to miss him so much, but of course she had/has no idea of what she's going through herself.

I have no idea why she hasn't tried to divorce her H; actually, I noticed that she still wears her wedding ring, at least I think it's that ring.  Theirs weren't the standard kind, they were quite distincitve.  Her H wore his until a little while ago. 

I also know that she, at least for a long time, depended on him to do all sorts of things for her, and definitely still expects him to hop to it and take care of their girls when she can't or when she wants to do something else. 

But more later.... 

[OldPilot]

My W's MLC coincided with menopause.

I would say that this is quite common.
Not a necessity but a good probability.

[Thundarr]

I remember my W saying "I have to do this" shortly after BD, and I thought she meant the D.  I asked her why she had to D me and she just looked at me like I was speaking Klingon or something and didn't answer.

[honour]

I remember my W saying "I have to do this" shortly after BD, and I thought she meant the D.  I asked her why she had to D me and she just looked at me like I was speaking Klingon or something and didn't answer.

They have no idea why they have to do it, but they have to do it. It's confused thinking born of powerful impulses.

sbreeze, a female MLCer on Amy's site would say that they don't know why they have to do it, they just have to do it. Further in to the process for her, sbreeze felt that abuse she had experienced as a child was a major contributing factor.

So imagine the scenario, you've been carrying damage and trauma around with you for a couple of decades perhaps. You've kept up an effective facade to stop people seeing the "real you" and then at mid-life/menopause the many triggers kick in at the same time as your body's biology changes and floods your blood stream and brain with chemicals/hormones of the like you hadn't experienced since a teenager. It's a re awakening, you see things clearly at last and off you go down the Yellow Brick Road in search of something you already have but no longer know it.

honour

[trusting]

My H used the words "I can't do this anymore" at BD- referring to the marriage/family.

[Ready2Transform]

Yep, I got "I can't do this anymore" too, also without any explanation as to what "this" was.  We were in dire financial straits at the time, so I assumed he had just become completely cold and was just giving up and cutting his losses and letting me take the fall.  In a weird way, MLC has actually been a more comforting reality than my immediate assumption.

[Trustandlove]

One of the things that she did say last night was that she "just couldn't do it any more"....  It IS very powerful stuff.    Her expression was pained as she said that. 

The background:

She watched her mother die of a horrible cancer when she was around 20, which goes without saying was grim.  Her father had a lot of FOO issues -- he was beaten a lot as a child; there were a lot of issues between him and her; I don't know if he in some way blamed her for losing her mother, or for not being her mother, or what, but there were many, many unresolved issues there.  Her father remarried; there was another child who was autistic, so she never got much of her father.

Her father died a few years ago; she never resolved her relationship with him, and that has always been very, very painful for her.  She told me a bit more about him last night; next time I'm going to have to ask her more directly. 

So right away that sets things up.

Next:  she did as she was 'supposed' to do (I believe this was to do with her father) -- studied medicine, later specialised in psychiatry.  A long, arduous road.  She was always interested in sociology; womens' issue in particular, and she did take some  time out (after she was already married) to do a degree course in this.  But she went back to the psychiatry, rising to a high-level position with the health authority. 

So we can see the accommodation going on....

And more:  we have a unique cultural background, which she is part of, but didn't grow up with the way for example I did.  She discovered all this in her 20's, and went wild for it.  It really pumped her up, she became very involved, both socially and in political activities. 

Through this she met her H.  So in some ways, at least she now says, he was part of that for her. 

I knew them when they first got together, they were inseparable.  Totally infatuated.   Now that's not a bad thing at that age, and of course they did settle down.  He moved countries to be here with her, he had to navigate that road.  He did his degree here (as a mature student), started his job, and so on.  They were I think both must under 30, or perhaps she was 30 already,  when they married, so not young and silly any more. 

They didn't have children right away; eldest daughter is now 18, so it wasn't a case of jump straight into family life, either. 

So imagine the scenario, you've been carrying damage and trauma around with you for a couple of decades perhaps. You've kept up an effective facade to stop people seeing the "real you" and then at mid-life/menopause the many triggers kick in at the same time as your body's biology changes and floods your blood stream and brain with chemicals/hormones of the like you hadn't experienced since a teenager. It's a re awakening, you see things clearly at last and off you go down the Yellow Brick Road in search of something you already have but no longer know it. 

Honour, I do think a lot of this applies in the sitch I'm describing.  She has always carried around a huge amount of trauma; even my H used to say that she was messed up, and that was years ago.    In truth, she really had sorted all that by having a loving H and family, and now off she goes.....

More later, gotta run....