[Anjae]

Am I allowed to brag a bit? We, no brain expert LBSs had managed to reach the same conclusion that a brain expert, on depression and its effects! 

Now, not joking, thank you so much for posting the info, Thundarr. From my knowledge, it is true that long-term depression cannot be totally cured. Both my husband’s company doctor and my friend the psychiatrist had said it. But it can be mitigated and balanced. Not only with medicines but with a lifestyle change and constant care.

Even if one does not a long-term depression it will always be difficult to recover from a depression. It will take long and a person will always be different than before.

Makes sense sometime with long-term depression may end up with dementia but dementia can be caused by other factors like high blood pressure, heart attack, diabetes, and so on. Or can be caused by a conjugation of factors.

But the same is true for depression, some can be caused by other medical conditions, like problems in the thyroid. Depression can both be the cause of other medical problems or caused by other medical problems.

I think sometimes depression is only caused by exhaustion and not by any expectations a person may have. Depression caused by expectations is what happens when someone starts to think they should had achieved more, but if you’re just dead tired and exhausted the cause is slightly different.

The end purpose of depression is to LOWER THE EXPECTATIONS of ther person experiencing it so that they are no longer faced with the hurtful reality and can focus inward rather than outward.  The suppression of positive memories is so that the person can feel that OTHERS WILL HAVE LOWER EXPECTATIONS OF THEM.  The doctor even used the expression "Stop expecting me to be the spouse you are used to me being."

Except that our MLCers want us to think the world of them... And they don't seem at all to be focused inwards. MLC replay depression is, in my view, very different from the regular, turned inward depression. But it a fact that our MLCers try everything in order for us not to expect anything from them.

And from what we know of former MLCers most of them, if not all, seem to recover their brain. Maybe MLC is more like drug addiction than like normal depression.

[Won'tGiveUp]

This discussion caught my eye...I hardly post so thought I'd chime in.  I'm not making excuses for H but I know he has been severely depressed for 3 years.  I was his cheerleader trying to make him happy.  After BD and therapy and this board...I've realized I can't make him happy and I went about it the wrong way.

I too told him he needed to get an MRI done and blood work 2 yrs ago.  Come to find out.. he has a frontal lobe tumor in the pituitary gland which is affecting all his hormones.  His testosterone was at a record low and his prolactins a record high.  He agreed to take the medication....WHOLE NEW MAN!!!!!  Then...we couldn't afford the medication anymore.  It was costing us $600 a month.  Well - I talked him into getting rechecked in May 2012 and all his hormones were back in the horrible range.  Example- Testosterone is supposed to be over 500 in men..his was 85.  Prolactins are supposed to be under 18 in men - his was 2600.  Thank you GOD - they now sell generic so its affordable. 

A bit to late though cuz BD was end of May and moved out in June.  Its takes a good amount of time for meds to kick in with those levels.  I  just hope he's still taking them.

Thats my info for you guys!!!

[Ready2Transform]

WOW WGU, this is the best case for the hormonal/chemical imbalance cause I have ever seen!  Would you mind if I reposted this (or would you mind reposting it) on this thread?  http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2951.0

[Trustandlove]

thanks for posting this, Thundarr.

Very interesting; I can think about it as applying to my H; his depression at least during this would most likely fall into the "unmet expectations" category -- the one where he wants to retire young, sees that he can't (and can't see that it's because he's chosen to spend rather than save...) and so on.   

And he is forever searching for that elusive 'high'; that adrenaline rush that he so likes.  That's the addiction part.  I can see that constantly chasing that would lead to constant disappointment/depression....

And also to me -- I've dealt with lower levels of depression off and on since childhood; I can definitely see that it isn't ever "cured", i.e. completely gone, never to return, but know that it can be managed very well.  It was clearly brought on by my own family situation, and it's something that I've had to learn to control. 

Again, it's recognising that nothing from the "outside" can fix it, which is why CBT works so well.  But things from the outside can make it worse; just because when there is so much thrown at us it can be overwhelming. 

It makes me wonder if some of us aren't in some way pre-disposed to depression just because of how our brains are wired in the first place. 

I do know that one friend who had known H since university days (she since seems to have remained my friend, but isn't in touch with H....) said that she always thought that H was a depressive.  These feelings of "not being good enough" certainly were there; it could be that he's been battling those by all the frantic working and spending all these years.  And when the perfect storm hit they got the better of him.

Again, down to poor coping skills.  But it makes you wonder when his sister grew up in the same circumstances and doesn't have any issues like this.

I wonder how much of this is learned (or rather not having been learned), and how much is chemical? 

And a bit scary that the natural progression of depression is dementia....  both for me and for H.  Different situations, of course, but wow. 

Although H's mother had alzheimer's, and I don't think she ever suffered from depression.   

Sorry for a rather disjointed post, but I do find this very interesting. 

[kikki]

Thank you so much for posting this Thundarr.
Really really interesting, but very sobering.

It goes along with my thinking too, that the depression has been around for a while with my H, and is something that would probably need lifelong management.
Supplements would be my personal preference too R2.

Thank you too WGU.  That really ties in with everything that AnneJ, R2 and I have researched about hormones and their effects on the body's biochemistry.

Also ties in with what your Head of Department said Thundarr about complete changes in personality being either hormonal, or prefrontal cortex atrophy (leading to dementia) or a tumour.

[kikki]

WGU - do you mind me asking how they are treating the tumour?

[Gallagher]

Wow T.  This is very interesting.  As things are starting to "stabilize" between my H and I, I have been pondering his depression a lot. This whole thing about negative memories is troublesome.  How do you live 18 years with someone and feel so differently about your past?  His family has even thought he was nuts for implying "not being happy."

His sister has told me he has always been a "depressing person".  How did I not see this when we were falling in love?

I believe that part of the distance that grew between us was my inability to "deal" with his depression.  It really is draining.  It makes me sad and weighs me down.  S16 calls it "heavy" and S14 says "dad is grumpy all the time."  It was easier to find energy and life from my friends,community and family.  His depression is part of his person and it affect the boys and me

Geez, sort of "depressing" to think about. Is there any hope?

[Doc Hudson]

My perspective on my own sitch is that my W was putting off achieving her goals (masters degree just like her sister, professional job, proving something to her parents etc) and finally realized that she had run out of time when her mother's mind went.  It is this realization that brought on this major depression that W just doesn't seem capable of overcoming. 

Thundarr, I agree with everything that you said, or that the expert said.  Word for word.  But I do not agree with the above.  Your wife was putting off her goal of being a good person, i.e., a person who does the right thing because it is the right thing to do without having to be told to do it.  She couldn't achieve this bar, so she lowered it... a lot. 

[Won'tGiveUp]

Yes..I will post on the other thread..no prob.

Kiki - He is taking Dostinex twice a week.  They have a generic form now so for 8 pills its only $280 instead of 4 times as much as a couple of years ago.  The testosterone is an under arm swipe every day twice a day.  I pray he still takes it.  Its going to take a LONG time to get his numbers up.

[Anjae]

Thank so much for posting your husband story, WGU. Very telling. Hope he is taking his meds.

It makes me wonder if some of us aren't in some way pre-disposed to depression just because of how our brains are wired in the first place. 

I would say this is a very good possibility. It does not mean a person who born with such a brain wire would had to always have a depression but that the person would be more susceptible to it, Especially under adverse circumstances.

Again, down to poor coping skills.  But it makes you wonder when his sister grew up in the same circumstances and doesn't have any issues like this.

The poor cooping skills are a personal thing. Your husband sister is different from him. Growing under the same circumstance will not affect two people the same way. Also, a person could have had good cooping skills and, at a point, because of some trauma/problem/circumstance stop having them.

I wonder how much of this is learned (or rather not having been learned), and how much is chemical? 

Hard to say, I think. Unless we all had detailed brain scans from our spouses since they were born and until know there is no way of knowing how much is learned (not learned) and how much of the not learned is so because of chemical issues of the brain. Again, all may had been great for years and, at a point, something altered the brain chemicals.

His sister has told me he has always been a "depressing person".  How did I not see this when we were falling in love?

Maybe because most of the time “depressing person” does not translates into the image we normaly have of a depressed person. Depression has many forms, many degrees. Also, when we are falling in love with someone, unless the depression is very showing, we will not notice it. We’re focussed on other things.

Geez, sort of "depressing" to think about. Is there any hope?

Yes, big hope. The more we know about the brain/depression, the bigger the hope. It may never be possible to cure certain types of depression but it is certainly possible to have it treated, stabelised, mitigated and learn to live with it. In my opinion, MLC is more like drug addiction. The brain of the MLCer, once the crisis is gone, and, if needed, with the help of medicines, will go back to normal. Even if the person was depressed it will be possible to look after the depression.

Also, we are having a ton of helful info in this board that will allow us to deal better with our spouses depression, or our own. So, again, yes, there is hope.