[Dontgiveup]

Well, if MLC means the acute onset of a substantially latent mental illness that results in delusions, memory impairment, and essentially sociopathic behavior then, yes, I would say that MLC 'exists'.

From RCR's article Midlife Crisis Takes Time
Though MLC is a clear state of dis-ease, it is not a disease. Though MLC is not a state of true mental illness, I find that it is often helpful for the Left-Behind-Spouse (LBS) to view the behaviour in this manner. It is a coping mechanism; a metaphor that can help us to understand. The balance is in not using it as an excuse as true insanity may be used.

Depsite what many will say, it does not "come out of nowhere".  It was there.  Many of us just missed the warning signs.   It's hard for me to admit this as I DID see the warning signs, but I was just too young and inexperienced to understand what they meant.   That said, okay, what now?

From RCR on the home page
I've studied Erik Erikson's stages of human development to gain an understanding of the roots of crisis and how they may manifest in adulthood.

[limitless]

Calamity,

I think that Doc is saying the same thing.  I just think that he see actual legal marriage and children as something that complicates the break-up more so than two people who aren't legally connected and have no children.

That does not mean that the emotional commitment isn't there...because it is.

Quite honestly, no break up is ever "easy" but, some are more difficult than others.....I don't know - this is the only long term relationship I've had in my life (I met my H at 19 and we have been married for 32 years).....and this break up is HARD....really, really hard.

Doc - Do you really believe that these personality traits have been in our spouses all this time...being hidden under a mask?  Wow!  I can honestly say that my H had issues.....but it is so difficult to believe that for 30 years he hid this selfish, narcissistic personality behind a mask of loving husband and father.  My H was never a skirt chaser....yet, with MLC - he's an adulterer.  Are you saying that this has been him all along...he just hid it or denied it?

Of course - anything is possible.....I just don't know.  His actions are so out of character (like most of the stories here).  And, yet his siblings seem to now believe that this is who he has always been and that I had kept him on the straight and narrow for all these years.  Now, without me, he has "gone wild" taking selfishness to an extreme.

I can tell you that i really spent a lot of time trying to understand why...and what had happened to him.  To the real world - MLC seems like an excuse for bad behavior. 

L

[FindingJoJo]

Of course - anything is possible.....I just don't know.  His actions are so out of character (like most of the stories here).  And, yet his siblings seem to now believe that this is who he has always been and that I had kept him on the straight and narrow for all these years.  Now, without me, he has "gone wild" taking selfishness to an extreme.

I can tell you that i really spent a lot of time trying to understand why...and what had happened to him.  To the real world - MLC seems like an excuse for bad behavior.

You know my H's family seems to think that I changed him and kept his personality in check because I was so controlling, he is now convinced of this too at least that is what he let me know early on.  We must be all powerful if we can make someone act contrary to who they are year after year. 

[Doc Hudson]

But really a relationship is a relationship whether or not it is sanctioned by state or church.  One is no 'freer' without the paperwork, it is still a 'divorce' [i hate that word].  The split may be different but the pain is the same.

I completely agree.  BUT a relationship inherently requires two people.  Once someone leaves the relationship... poof... you're on your own, at least with regard to THAT relationship.   That's the reality we are faced with.  In the event that our former partners seek us out again for a relationship, well, we each have to cross that bridge in our own way.  If they really want us then they should pursue us with AT LEAST the same vigor that they pursued their 'true love' no matter where we are.

[calamity]

Doc, I don't think we disagree on this, its just that I didn't want lbs's who aren't married to feel that we, on the board, view them differently.

Limitless you said:
I can tell you that i really spent a lot of time trying to understand why...and what had happened to him.  To the real world - MLC seems like an excuse for bad behavior.

Even to me, mlc seems like an excuse for bad behaviour.  Now I start to see it as a reason rather than an excuse.  Also, I think the real world understands far more than we think.  Mlc may not be taken seriously [until its personal!] but it think people are conscious of it more than we know.

It doesn't really matter.  The lbs still has to deal with it.  Somehow.  I just want a logical explanation...yeah, I know, good luck with that.

[limitless]

Doc,

I agree.  That relationship is over.  It took me a long time to accept that statement.  When I would read...."your marriage died at Bomb Drop"....I didn't want to believe it. But, it is true.

Yes.  You would like to think that the MLCer would, if/when he or she wanted to return - that he/she would pursue us with at least the same amount of effort that he/she pursued their "soul mate" during MLC.

Unfortunately, I don't think that is how it works.....

My H isn't going to show up with flowers, on bended knee, humbling himself and saying how wrong he was.  Not likely to happen. 

It's been chronicled here that they return home "broken."  And, I think that is one of the things that really scares me.  If and when my H wants to return....I will have even more to deal with as he will, most likely, be a hurting, broken man.  I can tell you...right now...I don't have the strength to deal with that.  I fear that I may not have it in the future......but who knows?

I have to admit...when I think about that I just want to scream "How much does an LBS have to take?"  When in reality, we don't have to take that, do we?  We ALWAYS have a choice. 

If there is a low probabilty for reconciliation.......it's due to many things:

1) The amount of TIME this process takes
2) The willingness of the LBS - to still be there for the MLCer
3) The (seemingly) unforgiveable actions taken by the MLCer (and the LBS in some cases) during Replay...and beyond.
4)  The amount of WORK this takes...(Guys - Standing is tough....tough....tough - no doubt).

I'm sure there are more reasons...
limitless

[Doc Hudson]

Doc - Do you really believe that these personality traits have been in our spouses all this time...being hidden under a mask?  Wow!  I can honestly say that my H had issues.....but it is so difficult to believe that for 30 years he hid this selfish, narcissistic personality behind a mask of loving husband and father.  My H was never a skirt chaser....yet, with MLC - he's an adulterer.  Are you saying that this has been him all along...he just hid it or denied it?

Of course - anything is possible.....I just don't know.  His actions are so out of character (like most of the stories here).  And, yet his siblings seem to now believe that this is who he has always been and that I had kept him on the straight and narrow for all these years.  Now, without me, he has "gone wild" taking selfishness to an extreme.

I can tell you that i really spent a lot of time trying to understand why...and what had happened to him.  To the real world - MLC seems like an excuse for bad behavior. 

L

Yes, it was there.  No doubt in my mind.  But let me be clear, I see ALL mental illness as merely selfishness, some more extreme than others.  In fact, I've even read that the currently-developing thinking regarding personality disorders, schizophrenia, and sociopathy is just that.  So let me rephrase, substantially latent SELFISHNESS that results in delusions, memory impairment, and essentially sociopathic behavior then, yes, I would say that MLC 'exists'.  BUT aren't we all selfish in some way?  Yes, but we have control over it and that's why no one else really sees this .  Sure, we dip our toes into the selfishness pool all the time, but we get back to work and our daily lives of giving.  Believe me, if I 'gave in' to my selfishness... Heaven help us all. 

[OldPilot]

Well since I am in a family with lots of mental illness I can say for certain that no one chooses that as a way of life.

It may appear to be selfish but I guarantee you that the person with the mental illness is not choosing to have that illness.

No more than one chooses to have cancer or a brain disease.

These are the cards that you are dealt and some illnesses are worse than others.

[Dontgiveup]

RCR's article Wanting More

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_coming-and-going_wanting-more.html

[Doc Hudson]

Well since I am in a family with lots of mental illness I can say for certain that no one chooses that as a way of life.

It may appear to be selfish but I guarantee you that the person with the mental illness is not choosing to have that illness.

No more than one chooses to have cancer or a brain disease.

These are the cards that you are dealt and some illnesses are worse than others.

OP,  I am not saying that they are choosing their condition; rather, I am saying that their minds are so selfish that they believe what they want to believe instead of the truth.  They completely tune out anyone who has a different 'opinion' than theirs.   In fact, I too have people in my family who are 'mentally ill' and they are so focused on what they are thinking that they don't even notice that anyone even thinks differently than them.   That is what so firghtening about this.  If we are all selfish and we all have to fight our selfishness back, are we really just fighting back 'mental illness'?  In my opinion, yes.  Well, what happens when we give up that fight?  There must be over 2000 thrads discussing this topic on this board alone.