[Dontgiveup]

The affair is selfishness.  The rewriting of history is selfishness.  EVERYTHING about what they do is selfish.  They gave up the fight and gave in.  They want what they want but the problem is, we are not what they want. 

I would agree with these things.  They are basic to MLC.  They are why it becomes a crisis versus a transition.

If or when they decide to fight back their selfishness, we may be something they want again.  Usually, by that point though, they are not something that anyone would really want.

I don't necessarily agree with this.  Perhaps the LBS isn't interested at this point.  Fair enough.  But consider this information from Jim Conway about who they may become after going through their crisis.

"After many of the values are sorted out and realigned, there is a gradual coming-down from anxiety and a return, surprisingly enough, to life structures quite similar to the previous ones, only now more refined and effective."

RCR's article "A Midlife Metaphor" is perhaps the best I've read at describing the MLC process.  From the shattered brokenness of Liminality to Rebirth as Conway describes above, using the example of Humpty Dumpty gives good imagery of this in my opinion.

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_midlife-metaphor.html

With all due respect, let's say that you are single again, and I come up to you and say:  "Hey, let me set you up with a girl that I know.  She's recently divorced because she cheated on her husband, neglected and rejected her kids, ran up the credit card bills before she left, and then publically humiliated him all the while showing absolutely no remorse.   Don't worry though, she's over her little crisis now and is allegedly a better person.  Do you want her number?" 

If your reply is anything other than "F*CK NO!", you, my friend, need a white jacket with really long sleeves.

She is likely not through her crisis if she is not showing remorse.  And what you are describing is setting her up with someone other than her husband or ex-husband.  That would make me OM, and my reply would be simply "no".

[OnMyJourney]

She is likely not through her crisis if she is not showing remorse. 

DGU

Are you saying that all MCLers show remorse after they get through their crisis?  I've heard it said many times that they often just want to forget the whole situation (and in some cases have forgotten much of it) and so they don't always show remorse.

OMJ

[limitless]

OMJ,

I know you are asking DGU, but I will chime in here.

I don't think that there is any "all" related to MLC - or really in anything in life.

I believe that "most" do.  And of those "most" - I would include those who regret, but do not verbalize it.  The ones who don't regret?  I would imagine their future life would be pretty bleak.....to have no remorse for such a terrible act/acts.

To Doc....Angry much, Doc?  I hear you.  I get it.  I had thought I had pretty much let go of the anger...but there is was yesterday....I was so very angry.

The whole thing is unfair.  Unfair to me...to my kids....to his family and mine.  Yes.  I blame him for the lot of it.  And I find myself angry at him.

Then I realize all this anger is eating me up inside....and pretty much NOT doing anything to him......the anger is poison for me......

It's something that I need to work through and let go of. 

Does he deserve my anger.  Darn skippy he does.  Do I deserve to be eaten up inside with that anger?  No.  I don't.  So the choice is mine.

Detach, let go...or be an old, angry, bitter woman.

Honestly - I can say that I do not love the shell of a man/child that he is.  Who could love that?

I did, once, love the man he was.

I guess I have hope that it is MLC....and he will "recover" someday and be more like the man he was.....hopeful...but not expecting it to be.

Take care..Doc.....Work through that anger - for you and your kids.

L

[Dontgiveup]

She is likely not through her crisis if she is not showing remorse. 

DGU

Are you saying that all MCLers show remorse after they get through their crisis?  I've heard it said many times that they often just want to forget the whole situation (and in some cases have forgotten much of it) and so they don't always show remorse.

OMJ

Would I say all MLCers show remorse?  Probably not, but I think many, if not most of them will at some point.

The article from RCR I linked earlier titled "Wanting More" has some good insight.

From RCR's article Stories and Human Behavior
More common is for a person to regret their actions--often when they are too late because the spouse has closed the opportunity for marital reconciliation.

[calamity]

Detach, let go...or be an old, angry, bitter woman.

Honestly - I can say that I do not love the shell of a man/child that he is.  Who could love that?

I did, once, love the man he was.

I guess I have hope that it is MLC....and he will "recover" someday and be more like the man he was.....hopeful...but not expecting it to be.

Take care..Doc.....Work through that anger - for you and your kids.

L

I'll second that.  cj

[OnMyJourney]

I believe that "most" do.  And of those "most" - I would include those who regret, but do not verbalize it.  The ones who don't regret?  I would imagine their future life would be pretty bleak.....to have no remorse for such a terrible act/acts.

I guess I was thinking of remorse as actually verbalizing it to their spouse.  I sure hope that most do.  I do know of some men who regretted but may not have verbalized it to their spouse. 

Thanks L

OMJ

[RivenIN2]

I regretted everything I did and felt all the pain I caused. It was hard to overcome that hurt and to try to make amends. I wanted to tell my W how sorry I was and tried but she was well on her way into MLC and did not want to hear me. She still does not and it still hurts. Maybe that is why I keep ripping the scab off my healing wounds and can't seem to detach the way I should.

[Ready2Transform]

Riv, know that apologizing for things right now when they can't receive it will only keep them in the tunnel.  They'd gladly let us take the blame for everything, whether we had a crisis or not, and it would just prolong the process of them realizing who they are and what they need to fix.  The day will come, but we all have to be on even footing when we're there, or it won't count.

[Thundarr]

OP,  I am not saying that they are choosing their condition; rather, I am saying that their minds are so selfish that they believe what they want to believe instead of the truth.  They completely tune out anyone who has a different 'opinion' than theirs.   In fact, I too have people in my family who are 'mentally ill' and they are so focused on what they are thinking that they don't even notice that anyone even thinks differently than them.   That is what so firghtening about this.  If we are all selfish and we all have to fight our selfishness back, are we really just fighting back 'mental illness'?  In my opinion, yes.  Well, what happens when we give up that fight?  There must be over 2000 thrads discussing this topic on this board alone.

I think you may be confused on this, Doc, or perhaps creating confusion in the explanation.  People who are "mentally ill" do not see the world as others do and are in a sense "selfish" as their natural instinct for self-preservation kicks in just as those who are not mentally ill.  What needs to be clarified is that you are comparing apples and oranges in the same way that two people could be watching completely different movies and applying completely different analyses.  If a person's perception is skewed or flawed, they cannot be expected to have proper judgment as they do not have equal or comparable positions from which to pass those judgments. 

And as far as the current schools of thought about mental illness and personality disorders, I would guess you are referring to Dr. Wubbolding's "Choice Theory" or Dr. Glasser's "Reality Therapy" approach.  Dr. Glasser, for those who don't know, is an MD who does not believe in psychotropic medication.  One of the tenements of his therapy model is that clients are not "depressed," but rather "choosing to depress."  Other than schizophrenia, Glasser believes that talk therapy can help people to overcome mental illnesses.  I use and practice many of Glasser's techniques, but cannot say that I subscribe to them inasmuch as many of my university professors do.  A pure Reality Therapist would not use the term "personality disorder" but rather "personality style" to describe what other therapists would see as a problematic personality.  Again, I think Glasser and Wubbolding (and I may get to meet Wubbolding soon!) have some very good points and I am working to further my knowledge of Reality Therapy but I do not agree completely with either of them.  To each his own, though.

[RivenIN2]

Riv, know that apologizing for things right now when they can't receive it will only keep them in the tunnel.  They'd gladly let us take the blame for everything, whether we had a crisis or not, and it would just prolong the process of them realizing who they are and what they need to fix.  The day will come, but we all have to be on even footing when we're there, or it won't count.

Ready I was not talking about now, I would not try to apologize to her now. I was talking about when I awoke from my MLC, I tried so hard to apologize and to make amends but was cut short by her rage.
Yes I am beginning to realize many things I thought I already knew. One being that any talk of R will keep them firmly entrenched in the tunnel.


I like the saying "The one who cares less about a relationship controls the course of that relationship."
or something to that effect, I always seem to get quotes wrong. But you get the gist, detach and they will begin to notice, continue to be detached and they will start to follow. Like a moth to a flame.