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Author Topic: Discussion How come therapists do not recognise MLC?

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Discussion Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#30: June 10, 2012, 02:56:13 PM
There are support mechanisms for families of alcoholics, drug addicts, people with heart condition, etc. but none to the spouse or family of a MLCer.
So what do you think we are doing here?

OP - globally - this is pretty much the only support that is available. Online. 
I dragged my H along to two psychologists after BD.  They both looked at me blankly, shaking their heads at his behaviour.  They offered zero explanation, and said there was nothing they could do until/unless he wanted help, which he clearly didn't.
He refused the medication and the therapy that they both suggested.
I was left grasping at straws.  It wasn't until many more months had passed that I found this forum and the penny dropped.  I was very angry that so little was known about this. 

Had I gone along to these people, and had one of them said 'this is what is happening.  You might see these behaviours, and experience this for yourself and your children.  Here's some information about the support that is available to you all' - well, what a different experience that would have been.

The second one, after my H did a no show for his second appointment, saw me instead.  When I told her what was going on in more detail, said 'this all sounds very premeditated with the OW.  Where does the crossover occur between mental illness and MLC. 
She then proceeded to talk to me as though my only option was to kick him to the curb, and even encouraged me to get a court order in place where he couldn't see the boys until he sought treatment. 
Needless to say I did neither - but I was so confused for a very long time about what I was dealing with. 
Yes - support systems and knowledge and understanding in the medical, psychiatric and psychological professions would be an enormous help.

Even if they didn't believe in MLC - or hadn't seen it - surely the fact that so many people cease to cope well at midlife, and the volume of MidLife depressions would have been helpful information to have.
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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#31: June 10, 2012, 03:27:46 PM
OP, the board does not provide me, or anyone, with financial support throught this ordeal. Nor has any influence upon the judicial system, the social system, the health centre or any real live structure.

The forum is a sounding board for LBS, provides info on MLC , allows us to vent, talk, share our joys and sorrows, but does have any structure to help us cope with practical real life situations. And probably it is not menat to have.

Society does not have structures to help a LBS. If husband was an alchoolic or a drug addict I would have a govenment bureau, expose the case, and they would address me to a social worker, and would put in action several helping measures, including legal counselling and financial support.

Here we are making people aware of MLC and provide them with the help we can but it is not the same as having practical help on the terrain.

My husband knew he was depressed, he refused to be treated. The doctor of the company hw worked for tried to help hsuband, before and after BD. Husband locked himself in his office and did not allow the doctor in. It dis not took husband long to quit is job.

The doctor on is company thought it was major depression but could do nothing because husband would not allow help.

It was only after I returned home I found out what was going on with husband only to realise there was nothing to help in such situation. MLC is not a medical condition, there is nowhere I can go and say: my husband is in MLC. People see this has a man behaving bad but there is nothing that can be done to help me. I'm married to a man who makes tons of money who drags divorce. That's all as far as the law, social services, etc, are concerned.

One can't say it is much of a practical help, can one?




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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#32: June 15, 2012, 04:31:32 PM
I've been continuing to think about all this. MLC seems to be a blanket term to cover a number of behavioural characteristics which may not be connected.

A while back, Thundarr posted a very interesting topic about official views on MLC (see: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2507.15) Ideas suggested were that MLC type behaviour (which itself varies enormously) could result from a variety of causes a brain injury/ neurological disorder, changes in brain chemistry, latent PD, depression, delayed PTSD. Of course, there is always the possibility that some people have an age-related panic or full blown crisis.

Actually, my very nice, supportive therapist always assumed that my H was having some age-related crisis, even when he didn't ever mention aging. He mentioned death, but welcomed it, and he was certainly depressed at some points, but he never seemed to worry about getting old. So in my case, my therapist recognised MLC, even though I never thought it was about age. But it was a crisis of some sort.

Revisting events, H had two episodes of TGA (transient global amnesia), one before his "MLC" type behaviour, one just after the beginning. He lost his capability to form new memories for 6-8 hours, and kept repeating the same 5 questions (like, "Where are my keys? Where is D21?") I thought at first he was having a stroke, and called one of his doctor colleagues, who took him straight to hospital for a MRI scan, which showed nothing. He never regained his memories of those lost hours, which was very upsetting for him. During both TGAs he was desparately clingy to me, and didn't want me out of his sight. During MLC he seemed to want to lose his dependence on me, as if his independent identity was threatened. He subsequently discovered that statins are known to cause TGAs, and stopped taking them.

My MIL always thought that his TGAs were the cause of his strange ML behaviour. I always said that his stress (and perfectoinist personality) led to both raised cholesterol levels and burn out syndrome (which includes anhedonia), but that the TGA didn't cause his behaviour. However, statins have inumerous behavioural and phsyical effects, and the long term effects of the TGA caused by statins are unknown. Statins affect short term memory by cutting cholesterol, which in turn cuts the efficiency and formation of synapses, formation of brain cells, and the inegrity of myelin. In other words, long term use of statins can lead to forms of brain damage.

I'm not saying that statins caused my H's MLC, but perhaps they contributed to his confusion, certain loss of memories (thus the rewriting of events), as part of a jigsaw of factors including his personality, lifestyle, and (traumatic) personal history.

Statins don't cause MLC, but medications can be, for some people, another link in the chain leading to a break down in behaviour

The difficulties we face, whatever the causes and effects, are immense, as we all know. Unfortunately, as for many misfortunes, there are not always adequate levels of social support. I know many cases of drug addicts, alcoholics, schizophrenics, etc. where havoc is wreaked on the family. The medical label doesn't protect the families from the consequences of the behaviour of such people. So would a recognised "MLC" label help? Perhaps not. But our understanding of our spouses' behaviours is the most important factor in governing our response.

The strength of this website is that we detach, focus on ourselves and  not on our errant spouse. We can have hope, but need to drop expectations. It helps to realise that those who let go more completely may make a better reconnection. We learn to forgive, and perhaps explaining our spouse's behaviour helps us do that. But essentially we need to lose our dependence on them for our happiness, and be whole in ourselves. This is the wisdom of this forum.
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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#33: June 15, 2012, 04:43:02 PM
The strength of this website is that we detach, focus on ourselves and  not on our errant spouse. We can have hope, but need to drop expectations. It helps to realise that those who let go more completely may make a better reconnection. We learn to forgive, and perhaps explaining our spouse's behaviour helps us do that. But essentially we need to lose our dependence on them for our happiness, and be whole in ourselves. This is the wisdom of this forum.

It is a blessing that this is here - my counselor told me I needed information so I started researching what could have caused this and then I found this place.  For a month I was completely lost, fighting the NC thing and didn't find any semblence of peace until I actually did NC.  I wonder at times if I am just fighting the inevitable and maybe he wasn't happy with me, but then someone shares and it is as if my H is reading from a script.  I knew we were working on things due to him asking and up until the day he left I always heard I love you, we were intimate regularly so it was a shock to me to learn all that he had been telling his family up north for several months, he certainly wasn't acting that way when we were together.  I would be lost without this place and God and give my thanks daily for helping me to understand and to learn to be patient.
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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#34: June 15, 2012, 06:18:07 PM
I guess for me knowing that MLC were a recognized condition would help to point others close to me to resources that could better explain it to them. They would also not think we are the crazy ones if we could point to it in a medical journal and say that is what my spouse is suffering from. I know wishful thinking. lol
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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#35: June 15, 2012, 07:20:56 PM
Mermaid said,
The strength of this website is that we detach, focus on ourselves and  not on our errant spouse. We can have hope, but need to drop expectations. It helps to realise that those who let go more completely may make a better reconnection. We learn to forgive, and perhaps explaining our spouse's behaviour helps us do that. But essentially we need to lose our dependence on them for our happiness, and be whole in ourselves. This is the wisdom of this forum.

Exactly.  Explaining my husband's behaviour helps me to both forgive & detach.  He has something that is caused by something--but he is not himself.  If he gets himself back, he will come home.  Yes I hope; having no expectations is more difficult. 

On the bright side, I am independant.  You can't survive this long [7 months he's been gone] without being independant so even when we [lbs's] think we are still half a couple, we are in fact surviving alone.

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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#36: June 15, 2012, 11:04:29 PM
Interesting topic. I am just reading the book Breaking the habit of being yourself in which Dr. Joe Dispenza explains the functioning of the brain. On page 192 he describes what happen to a person when his brain is in sustained high beta (brain waves). He doesn't mention the word, but what he describes here is MLC.
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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#37: June 16, 2012, 02:25:09 AM
Interesting topic. I am just reading the book Breaking the habit of being yourself in which Dr. Joe Dispenza explains the functioning of the brain. On page 192 he describes what happen to a person when his brain is in sustained high beta (brain waves). He doesn't mention the word, but what he describes here is MLC.


Can you tell us more? Sounds interesting. How do people get sustained high beta waves?

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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#38: June 16, 2012, 04:06:16 AM
The Therapist I went to made me feel like crap when I needed something, anything, to make me feel better - even if it was believing a lie.

At that time, I needed someone to tell me he's gone insane and the ugliness and 24/7 blatant lies while he looked into my eyes wasn't 'him'.  BUT my therapist only said things like "OMG, how terrible of him", "this man has no care for you at all and I don't know why", "he's clearly a narcissist"  "a sociopath"  "a psychopath".   

As it is, my husband carpet bombed our whole relationship including when it started.  Repeatedly.  I was decimated with knowing 20 years of my life have been spent with someone that didn't care about me ever, and not only wasn't a 'husband' who never had my back.  Not only not even a friend, but that he didn't care about me as a human being on even a base level. 

My therapist felt this way and sure did voice it.  This was the 'last' thing I needed to be told when I already had those fears and was clinically depressed to the point of barely functioning.   

Then she's saying 'what type of job would you like to do.  Retail?"  Excuse me?  Like?  Work in a department store?!  Do I look like I can even figure out what to eat for dinner let alone contemplate working again after over a decade not, then for bonus points...  she presents me with a low-level job that I'd be so miserable doing I'd rather die?

The focus by 3rd visit morphed to 'me' and how I planned to live my life alone whereas I could only think/focus on what was currently happening which was 'him' and his treatment/abandonment.   All the while peppered with "oh that's so terrible of him".   
(oh and I love the fact that if you don't go every WEEK, they yell at you for not coming 'routinely').   

I felt utterly MORE miserable after every session that I decided just being miserable at the dog park a much better form of misery.
Really?  Can't we just 'pretend' he wasn't a narcissistic psychopath since the day I met him?  Can't we just 'pretend' it was real and I didn't throw away 20 years of the best years of my life and not having children because I married him for a reason that doesn't haunt me each day for the rest of my life?

Sadly, though....  I believe she was right.

REALLY I wish those of us that found decent therapists would share who they are.  I wish we had a resource section?   As it is, I'm in need of therapy and am at the level of throwing a dart at the phone book to pick one.  So I delay choosing.  :(   IDK what to do.
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Re: How come therapists do not recognise MLC?
#39: June 16, 2012, 05:08:15 AM
Ha ha ha, I'll try. There are several kinds of brain waves. Alpha, Beta, Delta etc. The beta waves govern our waking hours and there are 3 levels: low beta (when you are relaxed), mid beta (when you are focused) and high beta. High beta occurs during stressful situations when the body produces survival chemicals (fight or flight). High beta is a short term survival mechanism but a long term source of stress and imbalance. It causes physiological arousal of o.a. the nervous system which leads to change in the psychological states which alters ones perception, behaviors, attitudes and emotions. It makes that the brain no longer communicates in an organized way. The stress chemicals are responsible for the fact that the thinking part of the brain becomes more segregated and therefor someone in a situation like that may function like someone with a multiple personality disorder. Feelings like anxiety, anger, frustration and fear induce high beta waves to predominate during a crisis like this.

Furthermore: high beta makes it difficult to focus on our inner self.  Someone in high beta has his focus on his environment so in fact they become very selfish. They focus not only on material stuff but also they criticize the people they know and they are preoccupied with their bodies and preoccupied with time. The are constantly on the run. For people in high beta it is almost impossible to learn new things: new information that is not equal to the emotions they are experiencing cannot enter their nervous system. They reason poorly and thinking is without clarity because their brain is in the survival mode and therefore the brain makes survival a priority and not learning new things.

Sounds familiar doesn't it?

About the survival mode. I am pretty sure that people in MLC run away from their childhood issues. So when that aspect of their lives is being triggered in some way, that is when the whole brain system starts to prepare for this horrible journey.

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