Sorry I’m returning to this thread late. I wanted to thank RCR for her long post to me, which was so full of substance to respond to.
First off, I wanted to clarify that I don’t think people who “stand” are crazy. I was replying rhetorically to someone who posted – am I crazy for standing? In that instance, and my choice was “crazy,” I said yes.
I do understand that people are motivated to try and reconcile. I tried it myself for over a year. I very much get the impulse. I have to say, however, in my experience it was far more painful to attempt reconciliation with a cake eater (or to have false reconciliation with someone pretending to NOT be a cake eater) than the initial discovery of the affair was. And I think it is abusive of a cheater to want their spouse to twist in the wind while they “decide” or encourage them to do the humiliating dance of “pick me!”
I didn’t heal until I left. That’s my experience. I divorced and it’s years later and I’ve been remarried now for two years to a wonderful man, who was also once a betrayed spouse. So that’s my history. Standing = ouch. New beginning = joy. Hard fought to get there, but well worth it IMO.
You wrote:
My husband did choose the option to get a divorce, but I got a say too and I said No. I was not going to be forced into something I didn’t want because he chose stupid. And technically he chose to be persuaded by the alienator to file for divorce. He would not have done it on his own, but being persuadable certainly does not absolve him; he did it; it was his choice to take that action and clearly it says a lot about him being weak since he allowed someone else to manipulate him like that.
Reading your story the part where I really started to root for you is when you set boundaries at the end.
You write about character:
I separate bad behavior from a bad person.
What defines our character if not our actions? Our opinion of ourselves? I’m sure many foul, horrid people think they’re just swell. In fact, I’d say lack of insight into one’s self is a pretty good sign of poor character. My H’s ex-wife (a serial cheater) said (when her double life was revealed) “I am NOT defined by my relationships.”
Well what are you defined by? She failed at the most significant relationships – being a wife and mother. So King’s X? She’ll choose instead to be defined by being a National Merit Scholar in 1982? Choosing to cheat, IMO, does define you.
Absolutely, you can take that abhorrent character and devote yourself to forming a better character with new acts of good character. But IMO you cannot “decide” yourself to be a good person. You have to earn it. There needs to be acts of restitution, of trust earning, of humility to EARN back someone’s love after you betray them.
You wrote:
.
Standing does not involve putting one’s life on hold, but it does involve being married even when your partner is choosing to act against your vows.
One painful lesson I learned from my “reconciliation” is that no one person can hold up a marriage by themselves. And to try to do that is excruciating and humiliating. To deny someone a divorce who wants to divorce you, IMO, is not noble, it is passive aggressive. Understandably, you feel powerless and upset. So to deny this divorce gives a sense of agency.
But I think it is a false sense. I would not want to ever again spend one New York minute with someone who doesn’t want me and me alone. I will not be an option for someone who does not make me a priority. Who refuses to honor their commitments. What kind of marriage is it if you have to hold a legal gun to their head to make them “commit” to you?
If you want to wait for them to come to their senses, they can do it after the divorce. Let them earn their way back. I think anything less is a hollow victory. I just don’t think you convince people to stay married to you by letting them eat cake, or “nice-ing” them out of an affair. All you do with that approach is feed their already colossal sense of entitlement.
Per “indulging” in depression (related to MLC) – again, I come back to character. Few things IMO are as depressing as being cheated on. And yet the betrayed person isn’t cheating. They’re “standing.” Surely, they suffer as greatly from depression as the cheater.
You wrote:
I still think, overall, the affair is played down around here. We're told not to worry, it is just a side effect, the person was convenient, OW/OM meant nothing. True, it is a symptom, the other person was willing but OW/OM meant something, at least during their existence. Even if only a shoulder to cry upon they meant something.
Wow. That really surprises me! I would think infidelity would be the HUGEST part of a MLC. The most devastating, shattering part. Anything else, like a new car or job change or religious epiphany or whatever would be window dressing compared to betraying the person you purport to love.
Yes the OW/OM alienator could be anyone (narcissistic supply is narcissistic supply). But it is still a betrayal.
You wrote:
he might not have met your criteria if you only accept those things immediately upon discovery of infidelity—or soon after. He was mired in entitlement and manipulation for a long time and even more mired in it as the receiver with the alienator as dishing it out. She faked a pregnancy first,
Do these OW come with a playbook?
Mine claimed pregnancy too – she was 46. (Didn’t know I knew.)
Hats off to your of 3.5 years of standing. I don’t think I could stand it. But I admire – and I think we have common ground – where you finally set your boundaries and consequences and it wasn’t until that point that he came around. I don’t think that is a coincidence.
Thank you for letting me post on your site and sharing your story with me.
www.chumplady.com
The Humiliating Dance of ‘Pick Me’!
Author
Topic: