[NoRegrets]

Oh, Chump Lady, you're like a shot of B12 in my upper arm.

I get such a boost from you!

Hear me roar!

And I needed it today!

 

[Ntmalu]

Thanks you just made my day with some clarity.. This definitely applies to mine who told me " if you had been a better wife, I wouldn't have cheated" I asked him to define the word " husband"

[Chump Lady]

One thing I feel we all know here is that we are not seeing the real spouse. When you put the time in to understand you do realize they are "out of character' "out of personality" which I think RCR was explaining in her post in not these exact words. This is not a whole marriage worth of deceit.

I understand grieving the person you thought they were, or once were. But IMO you have to deal with the reality you're dealt. That person isn't there any longer. They may not be ever coming back. My suspicion is that the cheater has probably been the taker in the relationship for a long time, before the cheating. That they have a weak character. But even if they are stricken with a MLC, okay, that "out of character" person is the person you are now with. You only get to communicate with THAT person. They don't switch on and off like Sybil.

And that person betrayed you. In character, out of character, they betrayed you. So it's not a whole marriage worth of deceit? Well, to that I'd say "Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how'd you like the play?" Some things can eclipse a whole marriage, can ruin the play.

My ex-H used to like to say about his affair(s) -- "Well it didn't take up that much of my time, really." Like he was billing his marriage in 6 minute increments. Like infidelity could be measured with a spread sheet. Okay, so the entire marriage didn't suck. He was fun to dance with, have sex with, travel with... sometimes. And the good, or even okay, the domestic holding pattern of normal, was certainly the "majority" of the marriage.  But I had to conclude that I didn't know him. I didn't know which "character" I was living with at any time. Had he slipped out at lunch and firetrucked the OW, and then come home to dinner? (yes, many times). Who IS that guy?!

None of the rest of it mattered. He was capable of that. Repeatedly. In the face of my pain and devastation and doing it again.

If it's a half a marriage of deceit or a whole marriage or .0001% of the marriage -- IMO it is devastating.

[NoRegrets]

Thanks you just made my day with some clarity.. This definitely applies to mine who told me " if you had been a better wife, I wouldn't have cheated" I asked him to define the word " husband"

Oh!

That makes me double over and want to faint!

But then I remembered we were talking about projecting, which MLC'ers, and I'm sure garden variety narcissists do.

So I think what your husband meant to say was, "If I had been a better husband, I wouldn't have cheated." Instead he projected onto you.

Don't accept his bull ess!

[Mamma Bear]

     Character? Goofy......  Lucky for me my MLCer didn't lie much. Woke up one day and in a desperate panic took his guitars and amps to ask a 'friend' if he could leave some stuff there bc his M had become hopeless and he was moving out. That's when he got hit by a "tsunami". 
      Since then he is mostly quiet. Lingers in the driveway and acts bashful but for the most part he acts like he thinks he's gone forever. 
   He doesn't think of it as cheating bc he figures he announced he was with "someone else" and "a real friend now"
   Since we have 2 Ds together he comes around occasionally to visit them but he is visibly not able to have an R with them. I can see it. Me either, he can't have an R with me. It's superficial.   His actions and words are almost robotic and so odd to observe. He tried to offer to help with the roof and the lawn a few times but later renigged. I think the Affair Down OW told him he can not help with chores.
  So what we have is a person totally convinced his only option to salvage his future was abandoning his wife and kids and starting a new life.
  Not going well...just like RCR said in her articles he now appears more confused and lost. He seems way to HAPPY when he runs into me .  His other life includes not being able to find any friends or familly to accept OW. Isolated in a hot, smelly, messy, manipulated existence all the while his wonderful family forges ahead with all the good things in life.....God, school, good friends, sports...animals...charity work..the arts and culture. I could go on forever.
 Point being, I will Stand and hold my Hs spot bc he has shown kindness through the insanity and because I love him.   That's it.  My Ds will Thank me for it one day.  I enjoyed reading what everyone wrote here. Especially RCR giving me a shout out about Clingy Boomerangs..... I can put 'handling Clingy Boomerangs' on my resume.
  Thank you as well Chump Lady. Never been mad at cake eater yet because I don't think he is cake eating. Just gone and polite...........and 'thinky'

[Rookie13]

CL,

My ex was a giver her whole life, put herself pretty much last as I did. We both came from big family's and also have 4 children.

My ex was frugal to herself and had a tough time spending money on things she really wanted. In my honest opinion she never was a taker.

Now did she have a very rough childhood? Yup.

She was pretty wonderful till her past caught up with her in my opinion.

Reality does suck that she is going through a rough time and I am the one she blames, but..... for better or for worse. For now 

Life for me does not evolve around whether I have a partner or not. Thats a insecurity. This gave me some much needed time to really connect with my children on a level they have never even seen never mind me. 

Not to mention the respect they feel for me for standing.  Maybe it will help them down the line. 

[Thundarr]

CL,

I think Rookie stated it perfectly in that it is so hard to not only see our W's going through a tough time but also knowing that we are the object of their blame for it. We WANT to be able to reach out and be there for him, akin to if they had a debilitating illness or disease and needed us to comfort them.  This is soooo much more than an affair or character flaw in our spouses.  Too many other elements to put it in one small box.

My W was never a taker either and in fact was just the opposite.  She rarely bought things for herself, even when I encouraged her to.  She had little interest and would take the money and buy things for the kids (and sometimes me) instead.  She would find value in little and inexpensive things.  Her parents threw out or gave away most of her things from when she was a child but she held onto one toy that she had treasured when she was little.  She did not hoard things and put up with the fact that I collected several things and she only collected smaller trinkets or keepsakes.  No, she was never a taker and in writing this I'm reminded of one of the millions of reasons why I love her so much.  She always put the kids first and worried about their well-being even when we were out together.  This new person she has become would go days without even calling to check on them but is doing better now.  I know the real her and I really don't think she could have fooled me for 21 years.  She is a gentle soul who has never intentionally hurt anyone but has been hurt by the actions of others.  In many ways I'm happy to see her taking charge of her life and being assertive while also buying things for herself for a change and doing things she enjoys.  This whole thing is such a double-edged sword in that we WANT to be supportive of our spouses, yet doing so encourages them to do things that are not in OUR best interest.  Through this I think many of us have learned just what love really is. 

[Dr. NO]

CL,

My STB EW was taker all along our married life.  Not overtly..but by manipulation...nagging...crying...throwing tantrum (her body grew, the kid inside did not).  With every tantrum, my tolerance went up, natural thing but a bad thing.

In last 4 years (and my guess is her MLC began somewhere during this time) Her take:give ratio was more like 88:12.  Then BD and then all the chaos.  Peace would return soon.

Dr. NO

[Chump Lady]

Mamma Bear, you wrote:

I will Stand and hold my Hs spot bc he has shown kindness through the insanity and because I love him.   That's it.  My Ds will Thank me for it one day.

but then you also wrote:

he comes around occasionally to visit them but he is visibly not able to have an R with them. I can see it. Me either, he can't have an R with me. It's superficial.

So how is he kind to you? He reneges on his commitments (roof repair and marital), he is superficial, and he has abandoned his daughters. By holding him in high regard, what are you signaling to your kids? That people who walk out on them are still people you can be friendly with? This IS cake eating. He has you (you're still there, no consequences for him) AND he has the OW.

He may not seem "happy" -- (I'd remind him his unhappiness is due to his poor choices) -- but his ACTIONS show you he is with her. He lives in that camp. As long as he can come and go, I don't see how things can improve, he's in the nirvanic state of cake. http://chumplady.com/2012/04/the-unified-theory-of-cake/

[Rookie13]

Hi CL,

I respect your decision to move on as I also thought that as an option.

I respect the people here more who try/understand the MLC process.

Your decision to move on and remarry may be a good one as your 'first pick' seems to be a man who could never meet your needs and you realized that a bit to late.

Yes, our spouse's here are selfish these days but that was not the norm for most in my opinion.

We choose to stand because we see/saw something completely different in our picks and we stand and 'hope' for a safe return with out the issues. A better marriage if you will and it is out there.

This is something you gave up in your H and probably for good reasons well before MLC happened in my opinion.

Please stop trying to analyze our spouse's while they are obviously 'flip flopp'n' around in another shell.

Of course they are hurt'n us and if you think they are stable and are making rational decisions at this point in their lives well..... hmmmmm.

JMO.