[Thundarr]

My exH also had an EA with a man from the gym. 

New information?  Sorry, I know how painful it is and W still texts and calls lawyer boy but I actually go days without even thinking about him now.  He's a non-issue regardless of what role he plays.

H tried to downplay that since there wasn't "that much sex" by the time they were caught, it didn't really count as an affair.  So EA's seem to live in the MLC'ers gray area. 

The physical stuff is what we're prepared to deal with as spouses, I think.  The EA stuff is so high school and weird...it's its own animal.

Did you ask him what was the limit that would have to be crossed before it was an affair?  Now, generalizing here, I think the PA may be what the female LBSers are prepared for but I don't think the male LBSers ever really get prepared for it.  It is the perception of most male LBSers I know that if a woman gets physical with a man then it's more intimate and special for her.  I know of several here and on LT that would or have tolerated an EA but draw the line with a PA.

Would say if an affair never moves to PA it will always remain very rosy, very sweet, very school crush like Hobo said.

I am interested to know whether you are thinking from the assumed perspective of a male or female MLCer or both.  I would have assumed that the EA would die out eventually and the PA would cement it for female MLCers as I said earlier.  Is there a gender difference here?  I've read accounts both ways.  From my own perspective, I think we have all likely had EA's whether we realized it or not as we have probably connected with a member of the opposite sex to a degree that our spouses would not be okay with (in their right mind).  It may be a co-worker, platonic friend or even a subordinate but we are all probably guilty and didn't even know it.  I know from my own perspective that I would eventually tire of an EA with a woman but sleeping together would be a different story.  Gender differences again?

I know it broke my heart when she told me that "don't I deserve to die looking into the eyes I love." and she was not referring to me.

This made me very sad to read.  Although my W has never expressed to me that she loves someone else, she has been very clear that she doesn't love me anymore and maybe never did.  She has done everything to prove that to me short of flaunting an affair, which she probably feels would turn me away permanently.  Abandonment coupled with rejection must be the hardest emotions for us humans to process.

[Dontgiveup]

Now, generalizing here, I think the PA may be what the female LBSers are prepared for but I don't think the male LBSers ever really get prepared for it.

I understand you are generalizing, but I don't know that I agree.  After all, we are familiar with the saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"........I have never heard "Hell hath no fury like a man scorned".  

It is the perception of most male LBSers I know that if a woman gets physical with a man then it's more intimate and special for her.

There is nothing intimate or special in MLC. 

I would have assumed that the EA would die out eventually and the PA would cement it for female MLCers as I said earlier.

I am not sure what you mean by "cementing" it, but if you mean it leads to a true relationship I would very much disagree.  

[superdog]

There's a big gender difference in how we connect and that is why I feel like the EA is much worse for women to handle. For men the sex is harder as that's how they connect most.

Its equally as bad and heartbreaking to know your h or w loves someone other than you.

Is it something we can truly get over if we are honest with ourselves  even with forgiveness, I don't know how you would ever feel the same again.

Sd
X

[BonBon]

Superdog,
My H had an EA with a co-worker that lasted about six months.  When I learned of it, I demanded it end and it did.  He then replaced the ego boost from her with Facebook and the hundreds of women he friended.  To this day he denies that he was physical with her, and denies it was even an emotional affair because there was no love talk and so forth.  But an EA is defined as a relationship that is intentionally kept secret from the spouse and so forth.  It might not have been love talk but it was heading in that direction, I am sure.  The text I found from her referred to him as "Babe".  It was the only text like that...but it was the last one she sent before I found it...so I knew where this was headed. 

Now that he is nearing the end stages of MLC and we have reconnected, I can't say 100% but I'm pretty sure that no, I will never feel the same way about him as I did before this.  And this was a mild case compared to many here.  But the fact remains that no matter how much I can forgive and move on, he broke my trust, he was cruel, uncaring, harsh and selfish.  Prior to this I did not know he could be those things.  So while I still love him, and am allowing myself to feel romantically in love again, and while I know that he was a broken man and that is in part what caused all this, he nonetheless is not the person I thought he was, but instead a flawed person who like many, has the capability to hurt me. Stupidly and naively, I never thought he would do that.
I'm learning to forgive, I'm learning to move forward but I can't ever go back 100% to that person I was before, the one that viewed my marriage as perfect.  Sad to say...but true.

Bon

[superdog]

My h has acTually said to me that he is sad because he knows I will never feel the same way about him again.

That was months ago and now he's back to mr change the world, or as we sane people know it- denial.

Thanks bon bon. I love me h too, but am coming round to the idea that it will never be enough after all of this.

The txt I saw from her said " can't txt but wanted you to know I was thinking about you" that's a little more feeling than any friend.

He stopped it for a while then txt her again during a bout of serious depression telling her how miserable he was. From then on in I haven't snooped his phone. I know enough.

He denies physical too and hates it when I refer to her as his girlfriend. He gets mad at that. She taunted me at their work to one of my friends and he took her side in everything. I know where his heart lies and it aint with me.

He has said to me before I don't feel the same, neither do you so why bother. I tell him to leave then and he goes nowhere.

Someone else said this too- if I want to know something about my h I would be better off asking her.

Sd
X

[BonBon]

Sd,
I'm in blue...

My h has acTually said to me that he is sad because he knows I will never feel the same way about him again.

My H has said this many times...there were times he said it and it was heartfelt, sad.  There were other times he said this to get out of accountability...keep that in mind.
That was months ago and now he's back to mr change the world, or as we sane people know it- denial.

Thanks bon bon. I love me h too, but am coming round to the idea that it will never be enough after all of this.

Well, maybe or maybe not.  I can tell you though that as soon as I think I know something for sure, something within me, I change my mind.  It aint over till its over...that is, if you have the will to hang around long enough.

The txt I saw from her said " can't txt but wanted you to know I was thinking about you" that's a little more feeling than any friend.

Yes, I might have missed some that said things like that too...I don't really know.  I saw enough to know it was an inappropriate relationship they were having, he was lying and betraying me, and something was really wrong.  Since I saw the word "Babe", I nearly vomit when I hear someone using that...lol...

He stopped it for a while then txt her again during a bout of serious depression telling her how miserable he was. From then on in I haven't snooped his phone. I know enough.

Well, they can cycle really heavily so its not surprising if it started up again in the thick of all this.  Remember this is all depression, mostly turned outward.  She is a fix...she is just a symptom of his running from himself.  That's all she is.

He denies physical too and hates it when I refer to her as his girlfriend. He gets mad at that.

I used to do that too...its a bit of b*ll busting..lol.  My H would get furious. But I stopped because it was making me look reactionary...better to act upright and above all this nonsense, know what I mean?

She taunted me at their work to one of my friends and he took her side in everything. I know where his heart lies and it aint with me.

It isn't his heart that is the problem...its his head.  Don't forget that.  But I don't blame you for being hurt and angry if he took her side.  Try to keep out of the maelstrom...if she taunts you, ignore it.  She is nothing...nothing.  My H's EA/OW taunted me too and I told him about it...she did it on Facebook back when you could read anyone's threads...he didn't really believe it. So this is not unusual.  He probably sees you as the strong one, erego, he defers to her in that way.  Just ignore it.  You deserve better than that crapola.

He has said to me before I don't feel the same, neither do you so why bother. I tell him to leave then and he goes nowhere.

Well, then he must not want to leave!  Don't engage in this talk with him.  Tell him in one sentence you hope things can work out between you or something like that...then walk away.  He's looking for you to either make him feel better or make him feel justified in what  he's doing...remember, no "R" talks, even if its at his baiting.

Someone else said this too- if I want to know something about my h I would be better off asking her.

Except that you are his wife...and he's in MLC...and again, she is just a symptom....so hang in there!

Bon

[superdog]

Thanks bon bon. Its good to hear others perspectives.

I am interested in the whole mlc thing and also the differences etc.

I have to say that even from a womans point of view, if I discover for sure that its been PA then I will walk for sure. That is the only exclusive for me in a relationship between h + w and if he has also violated that then there is nothing left for me.

Sd
X

[Finding Hope]

OH MY GOODNESS,

 My h called his "friend" Babe too, burns my chaps. Never, ever, ever, called me that.

FH

[Anjae]

Would say if an affair never moves to PA it will always remain very rosy, very sweet, very school crush like Hobo said.

I am interested to know whether you are thinking from the assumed perspective of a male or female MLCer or both.  I would have assumed that the EA would die out eventually and the PA would cement it for female MLCers as I said earlier.  Is there a gender difference here?  I've read accounts both ways.  From my own perspective, I think we have all likely had EA's whether we realized it or not as we have probably connected with a member of the opposite sex to a degree that our spouses would not be okay with (in their right mind).  It may be a co-worker, platonic friend or even a subordinate but we are all probably guilty and didn't even know it.  I know from my own perspective that I would eventually tire of an EA with a woman but sleeping together would be a different story.  Gender differences again?

Both. I don’t think men and women are that different and, if anything, my life experience has show me men are for more emotional than women. Also, biologically, if a man keeps sleeping with the same female he will be bound to her because of the release of oxytocin. In a way it is easer for a male to be trapped to a woman he keeps sleeping with than the other way round. That is why I think some guys just jump from female to female. If they don’t, they will start having feelings/be bond for/to her.
And here is where I think female LBS spouses who stop sleeping with their husband while he keeps sleeping with OW have it hard. The ocytacion bond is established with her, not the wife. No, I'm, not sugesting we, female LBS, carry on sleeping with our husband's while they have OW (I have not done it since a little after BD) just saying that is a biological reason why they become so connected to other woman.

I would not label a more friendly, more caring connection with a member of the opposite sex an EA. To me that requires some romantic fantasy some dream of “what if we get together…” But, overall, I would say, yes, most likely we’ve all already have an emotional affair that we were unaware of. Don't think that type of EA is a problem, just part of life. It has nothing to with with our MLCers EA.

Probably yes, gender differences because I would soon tire of sleeping with a man (meaning OM). Or maybe that is simply because the energy, the mess, the manipulation, the demands that come with it would soon put the off.  I would soon tire of the EA as well. Things that tend to go nowhere, or lead to the road of disaster, I soon tire of. Don’t mind a think that is going nowhere if it does not demand much of me and is short lived, otherwise, I’ll pass.

[Sassyone]

Now that he is nearing the end stages of MLC and we have reconnected, I can't say 100% but I'm pretty sure that no, I will never feel the same way about him as I did before this.  And this was a mild case compared to many here.  But the fact remains that no matter how much I can forgive and move on, he broke my trust, he was cruel, uncaring, harsh and selfish.  Prior to this I did not know he could be those things.  So while I still love him, and am allowing myself to feel romantically in love again, and while I know that he was a broken man and that is in part what caused all this, he nonetheless is not the person I thought he was, but instead a flawed person who like many, has the capability to hurt me. Stupidly and naively, I never thought he would do that.

I'm learning to forgive, I'm learning to move forward but I can't ever go back 100% to that person I was before, the one that viewed my marriage as perfect.  Sad to say...but true.

Oh Bon, that is exactly how I feel too right now.  I hope in time too that those feelings will change  . . . wonder what Stayed has to say about that.

Hugs,

Sassy