[everhopeful]

I read this book last month and actually gave it to my therapist when I was done! However, as others have noted, people who are dealing with a real crisis that includes abandonment and an affair will likely wish they would be so lucky to have had her experience. Personally, the whole time I was reading this book I kept thinking that he was probably hiding an affair and she was consciously in denial. But whatever, there's a reason denial exists. I wish her well and her book offered me a lot in terms of a hopeful spirit and good attitudes to try and adopt.

[Sassyone]

I read this book last summer too.  While I believe her H's was more of a MLT, I also think she had some nice editing and "Hollywoodizing (sp ), added to make it more commercial (i.e. increase sales!).

For me whether or not there was an OW, MLT or MLC, or if her H will have a full blown MLC later on doesn't really matter.  She did what we know works. Now the meaning of works does not always mean getting back together, etc.  She gave her H space, worked on herself, protected her children, etc.  Yes it is simplistic, but what it does and did do for a lot it gives them hope.  Hope is what we live off of, especially in the beginning.

Personally I believe her book was written so Lifetime Network could buy it and make some money on the feel good ending.  If only all our journeys were that smooth and short. 

Hugs and Hope,

Sassy

[Anjae]

It may not make more sense for everyone to get divorced; that is where each of our situations is so individual.  So many factors are part; length of marriage and length of time since BD are only a small part of it.  And when I talk about not getting divorced as the sensible option I don't mean just in terms of saving the marriage; there may well be other, perhaps financial, perhaps other, factors to take into considerations as well.  That's another reason it's so hard, because it's often so complicated as well. 

And some of those factors may even be conflicting, making it all harder still.  It's like what RCR writes about separating out monster and non-monster, sometimes you can't even tell.

That's why this is the hardest thing we'll ever do.

Each of our situations is individual but, from what I've seen with myself and in here in the board, unless they return before too much damaged is done, divorce offers better financial protection. It also offers better emotional protection and it is easier to detach. And we have also seen here on the board that female MLCers divorce pretty fast. It is normaly the male ones who drag and drag and drag.

There are the children for those who have children. But it is really better to remain married to a person who is having an affair/living with OW/OM, monster, cutting us off financially and spending with other person? What does that tells the kids? I'm not sure... Will the kids thanks us for have enduring extreme hardship while mum or dad were having their crisis and causing huge damage? Not sure... I would have not thank my mum or dad for that and would undestand they had divorced. If I was a kid I would had much more trouble getting why my mum/dad would not divorce a person that was causing us so much pain.

Think everyone here knows I deeply regret had not divorce my husband right after BD. It was a mistake I have been paying very highly for. So, my perpective on the matter has changed drastically. The pain of divorce would had been nothing compared with this. And I'm still not free and have not been financially or legally free for ages.

[LettingGo]

AnneJ.... I sympathize with your particular sitch..... I really do...

In regards to children..... kids DON'T CARE what their parent's problems, needs or wants are...... KIDS WANT TO COME FIRST, NO MATTER WHAT!!! They do NOT want their parents to divorce, though they might give "permission" to the abused or unhappy spouse under the circumstance.... that's what I did when my parents wanted to divorce.... but in reality, they all want their parents to SACRIFICE and BE TOGETHER AT ANY COST for THEM!!! Because kids can ALSO intellectualize... and "understand" their parents' dilemma.... but in their heart of hearts, divorces tears their world apart..... leaving a trail of abandonment issues as well as the inability to TRUST a love partner..... as well as the inability to MIRROR a healthy relationship!!!

Kids do not "get over divorce" because "they are resilient..."..... the SURVIVE divorce because they have NO VOICE. The damage of divorce is for lifetime. Now, that doesn't mean I think all couples should stay together no matter what.... but, I do UNDERSTAND the true price of divorce on children..... it is actually NOT worse for them to survive an MLC and come out the other side with their family intact... the reward is the same as for the LBS... their FAMILY STRUCTURE is protected for life.... Holidays are spent with their parents... TOGETHER.... not with some OP they didn't grow up with. I'm fortunate that both of my fathers (natural and adoptive) remarried women I like and get along with... BUT, they are NOT my "family".... where the Mother goes, so the children go and the relationship with the Father is NEVER the same.

For the record, my kids remind me of my initial promise to them which was that I would do my absolute best to keep our family together, against all odds, regardless of Dad's antics......Also for the record.... I love him, but without kids, I would have been long gone.... that's just my nature. I'm glad I've stayed, because I see the end of the tunnel..... it's a tragedy that so many months and years have been lost to MLC. By the way, I'm not lecturing at all.... just addressing your question regarding children... My generation was the first generation of no-fault divorce and the fallout is ugly.

[Anjae]

LG, I know the price of divorce on children. My cousins, who I lived with for many years, have divorced parents. My husband did not have divorce parents (not until he was in his late 20’s) but is dad had OW and keep going and coming. My husband and his sister detested the situation and much prefer they dad to left for good. Dad only did when they were adults. It did no good to those kids to have their parents married for years on end. MIL did not wanted to divorce for the sake of appearances and she end up doing her kids much more damage.

Yes, kids are resilient and survive divorce. And yes, kids just want to have their parents around and don’t care about adults issues but they do care if home is a mess because mum and dad has OW/OM and there is no peace and no happiness.

Well, my parents in law only divorced when the kids were adults, FIL would be around for Christmas for a couple of hours and then leave to be with OW (and the kdis knew this). He never went on holidays with his kids, hardly had time for them but had all the time in the world for OW. My FIL was not in MLC, he was a womanizer.

My husband had a terrible pain because his dad would spend all the time with OW and not with them. So, remaining married does not always help the kids. In his and his case sister case, it was hell.

And I have seen the same with couples where the parents don’t divorce and mum or dad have OW/OM (MLC or not) and keep coming and going or lived for ages with other person. Keep the family in one piece is the goal but I’m not convinced doing it at all costs (like my MIL tried to do) does any good to the kids. Divorce does not any good but some marriages and some married situations also don’t do any good to the kids.

And, anyway, kids know the parent in MLC (or who has a tendency to serial affairs) has abandoned them for the sake of someone else. Or for selfishness. Kids know they have not come first for a long, long time on a MLC parent priority. Or the philanderer parent.

A sort of no fault divorce only exists here since 2008. For many decades here divorce was almost non existent. We were living under a dictatorship and women belong to their husband’s (true. To leave the country a woman would need her husband’s signature. If no husband, dad, uncle, older brother. Same to a woman to work. For a woman to divorce it was almost impossible, so women endure whatever it comes their way). So, divorce is some how a recent thing around here.


 

[Anjae]

In fact, it is funny, my husband never wanted to be like his dad, always dread of abandoning his wife. Never wanted to have OW, wanted to be married until dead do us apart and be totally different from his father. And here he is, being even worst than is dad. Wonder what he thinks of it… In a way I’m glad we have no children. 

[Thundarr]

W and I both grew up in intact households.  My dad died when I was 15 and my Mom has never remarried, though she did have a boyfriend for several years.  W's parents have been married almost 60 years and are closer now than they have been the whole time I've known them.  Her grand-parents were married more than 76 years before her grandmother died.  The whole idea of us getting D just blows me away as W has had to put up with nowhere near what either of our parents did as our lives have been much easier.  I know this has nothing to do with the M, but I struggle to understand how she will ever be able to put this together in her mind in any meaningful way.  It is truly mind-boggling.

[LettingGo]

I understand, AnneJ..... and I agree that staying together for the sake of appearances does NOT solve the problem... SOME people ARE serial cheaters... they are!!! No reward in staying with them, unless there is a lot of money involved!!! Perhaps your MIL was a doormat, but perhaps she had other reasons that are clouded by others' judgement.... kids often say they HATED the hell of cheater coming and going.... that must be true!! BUT, like any choice of the "lesser of two evils", most kids would still choose for their parents to stay together... NOW, if the cheated on spouse is bitter, angry.... NEVER going to be willing to move forward... because the cheater is NOT REMORSEFUL, a serial cheater... womanizer... well, then SOMEBODY did NOT do their homework while dating, hahahahahah!! BUT, for instance... in MY case... my husband is NOT happy about the cheating.. feels compelled... addicted...wanting to stop.... does not love her.... THEN... there is hope... and a reason to stick with it!!!

I am in NO way arguing against anyone choosing a different outcome for their sitch!!! It is YOUR life... we are only discussing the VERY REAL repercussions of divorce on children... if the MLCer was in his right mind, he would NEVER risk subjecting his own children to the abandonment issues he is running from!!! I only hope and pray that coming FULL CIRCLE will allow those issues to be addressed and not ENDURED for a lifetime.....

[Rollercoasterider]

In regards to children..... kids DON'T CARE what their parent's problems, needs or wants are...... KIDS WANT TO COME FIRST, NO MATTER WHAT!!! They do NOT want their parents to divorce, though they might give "permission" to the abused or unhappy spouse under the circumstance.... that's what I did when my parents wanted to divorce.... but in reality, they all want their parents to SACRIFICE and BE TOGETHER AT ANY COST for THEM!!! Because kids can ALSO intellectualize... and "understand" their parents' dilemma.... but in their heart of hearts, divorces tears their world apart..... leaving a trail of abandonment issues as well as the inability to TRUST a love partner..... as well as the inability to MIRROR a healthy relationship!!!
Kids do not "get over divorce" because "they are resilient..."..... the SURVIVE divorce because they have NO VOICE. The damage of divorce is for lifetime. Now, that doesn't mean I think all couples should stay together no matter what.... but, I do UNDERSTAND the true price of divorce on children..... it is actually NOT worse for them to survive an MLC and come out the other side with their family intact... the reward is the same as for the LBS... their FAMILY STRUCTURE is protected for life.... Holidays are spent with their parents... TOGETHER.... not with some OP they didn't grow up with. I'm fortunate that both of my fathers (natural and adoptive) remarried women I like and get along with... BUT, they are NOT my "family".... where the Mother goes, so the children go and the relationship with the Father is NEVER the same.
For the record, my kids remind me of my initial promise to them which was that I would do my absolute best to keep our family together, against all odds, regardless of Dad's antics......Also for the record.... I love him, but without kids, I would have been long gone.... that's just my nature. I'm glad I've stayed, because I see the end of the tunnel..... it's a tragedy that so many months and years have been lost to MLC. By the way, I'm not lecturing at all.... just addressing your question regarding children... My generation was the first generation of no-fault divorce and the fallout is ugly.

I just want to quote this so that when I gather my posts for archiving in MS Word, this is included. I love it--you said it so well.

[Anjae]

Yep, some people are serial cheaters. And in the 60’s, in a deep catholic souther European country, with no divorce, well… My MIL is/was deep catholic and from a small hinterland village. By then things were not like now, let alone in such place, and she grow in what we can call an old fashioned way.

Your husband could be a womanizer that it was not acceptable to separate or divorce him. But, when they meet, I don’t think she had any idea he was a womanizer. No way she could know. He lived in the big city, was from a good family, younger than her. She married at 30, too late for a woman her age. And there was no dating like we know it. They would never be alone until they married. FIL would only see her at her family house or at the village ball, always with her mother or father near by.

And, well, it was expected of a man to have other women. The wife was for having children. However, at first, they got along well, went abroad on their honeymoon, went to exhibitions. First kid come (SIL) and thing remained good. Second kid was on its way and FIL went back to his single days and never stopped. He had been having affairs since by husband was inside his mum’s belly. A thing that has always deeply hurt husband. Husband totally despised is dad because of it and what come after. MIL both withdrew into herself  and played the social part of a woman of that social circle: husband does as he wants since he is a man. No questioning it.

My FIL was never remorseful. And, cammon, he had been a cheater since his son was on his mum’s belly. FIL never left MIL or the kids with any financial problem. Always provided for them, even after divorce. But the situation, especially when a primary and permanent (until a couple of years ago) OW come along, husband was devastated. Of course husband would had prefer FIL to have done more for the marriage but FIL wanted OW better. FIL was living between OW and MIL. And everyone had to walk on eggshells because of FIL. Everyone but me that did not fear or care less about upsetting “the great man”. I was always civil but pretty much ignored him.

My FIL left years before MIL agreed to the divorce and moved in full time with permanent OW (of course he cheated on OW a million times), when the kids were already in their 20’s.

But is was tough. Having dad escaping Christmas, not attending kids birthdays, not going on holidays with them and saying he had to work when everyone, kids included, knew he was going to meet OW.

Once, when I already dated husband, we were very young, 20 maybe, we had went to the movies and we meet FIL with OW downtown. Husband was livid, did not said a word. I said hello. OW asked husband how he was, was very sweet with him. Not a word from husband. FIL also never untold people that the kids were not his and OW. People though (except a chosen few) that FIL and OW were the kids parents. They had no idea MIL existed.

I would hit the roof with the whole thing and though MIL should divorce. When MIL finally did she confess me she regretted not had done much earlier but there was her mother, and her religion, and she used to thing she could not do it. She end up realising she had been wasting her life with FIL, being the good obedient wife.

MLC affairs are not the same as having a womanizer for a dad.

And, now, here we are, with husband being his dad, pretending OW2 is the wife and having no one knowing (or nearly no one) that he has a wife.

My husband was not happy with anything he had done prior to BD and until OW1 was no more. From then on I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think he is proud of himself. And worries a lot of what I think of him. He panics that I have a bad image of him. Wish for now I do. And he knows it.

So, I guess it is not easy becoming the thing your fear and despise the most: your cheating dad and beyond. I have no idea how one deals with it or heals from it. Husband has to heal from the past and from his own actions. Seems to much for a mere human being to bare.

Agree, if an MLCer was in its right mind would never risk subjecting is own children (and spouse) to such thing. But I truly don’t know how, in my husband’s case, he is going to deal with the whole mess. It has so much to process, to address, to get through… running sounds more appealing, I think… But don't think it will work forever.