[kikki]

Of course they do!  They also think, even if what we say is genuine, "it's too much, too late"!  In their minds, they gave us EVERY possibility to "change".  Of course, they were perfect and there was no need to touch such "perfection". 

They also find our "kindness, meekness, gentleness" to be pathetic and nothing more then an attempt to "suck" them back in.  Remember, they are on bat$hitcrazy!  They see us as the manipulators! 

Lalalala... just more "singing in the rain".  Hugs Stayed

Oh this is so true!

When my H first 'lost it', I had no idea what was going on, and it was many months later before I found this website.
BUT I had already found that my yelling and arguing with my crazy H was just making things worse, and I naturally started doing what is advised here. 
At MC my H said that he thought my sudden 'zipping it' was designed to MAKE HIM STAY!!!!  (read MANIPULATION).  I was horrified.

And when I found this website and started to say 'I'm sorry you feel that way'  - he HATED it!!! 
His lips used to curl in distaste!!

[being a lighthouse]

Stayed again your wisdom is invaluable. what I have learned more than anything on my journey is the need for boundaries.

[stayed]

And look out for yourself.  There is no length too far to protect yourself, financially, emotionally and even physically.  Nobody benefits if YOU go down!  Somehow, we have to pick ourselves up, clean ourselves up and take back control of our personal well being. 

When this first happened to me, I instantly looked to myself.  Every single word of criticism my h made about me, I took as the holy grail.  I believed every word he said. I had lost him because I took him for granted, I had not cherished him enough, had not looked after his "physical needs" enough... I had been a selfish, mean person and I DESERVED to lose him.  I was really hard on myself.

Looking back, I have no regrets about that.  I needed to beat up on myself, there was some truth in what he was saying.  As part of our journey, the process, I think we need to look at ourselves and find ourselves "wanting".  That being said, the beauty of the process is that eventually, as their antics become more nasty, cruel and self serving, we start to look a little further afield.  Them!  The marriage!  Life, past, present ... future!

Many months later I concluded that although I definitely had not been the perfect wife, there was nothing on this planet that justified his behaviour. NOTHING!  From that point on, I never really looked back, but I maintain that self condemnation and reflection was an essential tool.  Enabled me to find balance, self awareness of strengths, as well as weaknesses and a new faith and belief in myself.  My ability to heal, to rebuild and find happiness again.

It's quite the balancing act, to be completely honest.  I became my own biggest critic but also, a fan.  I have good traits and bad.  I am human.  Take me or leave me.  That is good enough for me.  That is all I want.  It is up to our spouses to do the same.  NOT OUR PROBLEM!!!

Hugs...Stayed

[Stillpraying]

They see us as the manipulators! 

I've been getting quite a few comment from H about this lately when he starts going into monster.  "You are manipulative and you always have been!!"

[crazyjourney]

That post is oh so true, I have followed that exact same path at first trying to be the best wife possible almost to the point of exhaustion and you know what he still left.

Yes I have looked at myself very critically and worked on a few things to be a better person but I would no longer run after h the way I was willing to before, he can whistle dixie as far as I am concerned, previously to mlc creeping in we had a lovely give and take relationship I can now see that he had started to do all the take and marriage doesnt work that way.

No idea what path we will end up on, the thoughts of ow still hurt me to the core even if she is a bandaid, but I have survived this thing so far, I have managed without him for 19 months now and if he wanted to come home tomorrow I am not really sure if I would let him, it sounds like another difficult journey, if mine returns I would like him back fully cooked please lol and if he isnt cooked to perfection I might send him back!

Well that is the tough me talking, but I also know that a weaker me still exists that wonders if I would just melt and welcome him back and what is strange is I really dont know.

Great post though stayed, imformative as usual thanks

CrazyJ x

[Sassyone]

On a better note . . . Stayed of course is 110% correct, they will when they exit the tunnel and begin to further heal remember the kindness and strength we showed (i.e. the "manipulation").  Until then they think everything we say or do has an agenda.  So don't worry about what they say and continue to focus on yourselves.  Continue to be the lighthouse. 

When my H was deep in the tunnel and I would say I am sorry that you feel that way and all the other validating statements he would onster so bad and tell me I read too much and stop trying to manipulate me by what you are reading.  I would literally laugh at him (oh yes he remembers those times!). 

Let them monster and continue to work on yourselves.  This is the time where you can become who you have always wanted to be.  I can promise you one thing . . . in the end, you will be a better and stronger person.

Hugs,

Sassy

[JAG]

Sassyone,

Your post put a smile on my face because my H (who is still deep in replay) pulled a "stop using psychology talk" instead of saying "manipulation"....different words....same meaning...haha....Really....me telling him that he has to look within himself and see what he wants is psycho babble? ummm....don't think so....it is the truth!

[dbpb]

Was not sure where to post this, but I thought some of you may find this interesting.

I have been divorced, many,many yrs and ex still is living with OW he left marriage for. He and I have been through all the emotions  associated with adultery, separation, divorce that so many of you are experiencing now. It has taken time but I guess I could describe our relationship at the present time as "casual friends with NO benefits".

Several yrs ago, we had to discuss one of our children and it happened to be on our anniversary date.  While we were talking, we both realized what day it was and both of us felt kind of uncomfortable, and we ended up  wishing each other a "Happy ex Anniversary." I remember being so upset/sad afterwards.

Each yr since then he has left a brief voicemail just saying he remembered what day it was--that is all he says.

Yesterday he left a voicemail, but went into more detail. He stated that 43 yrs ago at this time we were both so nervous getting ready to walk down the aisle. And that he remembers  our driving to our honeymoon location. Wasn't ex pecting that and was kind of surprized he even mentioned it.

In my opinion, I think he has guilt, but has never been able to actually admit it or say I'm sorry. In the beginning of this, I was happy because I thought it meant more than it actually does--remembering that he is still with OW and the night before, they were at a big ski expo picking out their trip for next year. I say this because now, or at least this yr, it kind of irritated me. CAke EAter is the first thought that came to my mind when I heard the call.

What I'm saying to those who have read all this is and may have abandonment or rejection issues,, They don't forget us even if they don't come back!! I'm not gloating at all, but I would think the OW would be furious if she knew about the voicemail.

Just thought I would share this "dysfunctional moment".

[Anjae]

They don't forget us even if they don't come back!!

No they don’t forget us if they never come back nor will we ever forget them. My uncle end up leaving after years and years of having OW (it was not a MLC situation). He keep being around here every Christmas until my aunt got a partner. He does not call on the day they got married but, more than once, years after he had left, called on the day they start dating.

And with my uncle it is pretty obvious he has never forgot my aunt. Everytime he go around his house he always gives us something to bring to my aunt and he still sends her things every Christmas.

[stayed]

That was a fascinating update dbpb!  It also substantiates my belief that MOST MLCers eventually feel true remorse.  I don't see this "exchange" you two have been having on your anniversary date all these years, as acts of GUILT, I actually see them as signs of true remorse.  I will be "stunned" if you do not receive a full blown apology, sometime in the future. 

The question remains, will it be during one of your "happy x-anniversary" exchanges, or will it be completely on its own.  Whatever, I bet you get an apology in time.

Thanks for sharing this.  This was the perfect place to do it.

hugs Stayed