[justasking]

Chickpea

Unfortunately it is early days for you at the moment. MLCers often get worse before it gets better and there is a time when they move into the middle of the tunnel when they truly believe they are happy and content. At this time their world hasn't started to implode but it will.

I don't have a vanisher so can comment on him but IMO it is best to leave him alone at the moment. If you text him he will see that as pursuing and add it to his list of further justification.

I know it's hard and scary as they move further away. Our fear makes us panic and that is when we try and think of things to help. What we have to do is face the fear of being alone at the moment.

The pain and fear will get better.......  honest.

xx

[LearningIamOk]

Chickpea, consider the source of the statement that he is "happy". What else is he supposed to say. He is not going to admit for one minute that he is not happy and quite possibly made a mistake. Also, they function perfectly well in other areas of their lives. I wouldn't let it throw you that people see him as normal. What's normal about abandoning your family?

JA is correct that this is the early days for you and that things will improve. You didn't chase him away, but your pursuit gave him justification to continue his path. If it will make you feel better, write him a letter and then don't send it. He really does need time alone with no pressure. I know it is difficult for you, but they really don't move too quickly on things and a lot of the things we fear in the beginning never come to pass.

[ehill]

I purchased RCRs book from the store today. I paid on paypal. Does anyone know how I get access to it?

Thanks
RCR here
I've already PM'd with ehill, but want to respond here as well.
There was a malfunction between the connection between PayPal and the store service I use. I've corrected it and I manually sent a copy of the e-book to those who purchased it when it was malfunctioning. If anyone else has problems...please let me know ASAP.
The download for the e-book (or any of the other purchases) comes in the thank you page that follows the transaction and another link is sent by email--just to be sure. All of that is automatic through the store service.

[ehill]

I'm just wondering do they come through mlc without the help of a counselor? My H will never seek help. He won't even go to a doctor when he is sick.  I suggested he talk to someone after he told me he feels lost and doesn't know why. He said "for what, to tell him I don't know whats wrong with me and he can guess?"  I see him struggling with himself so much and its breaking my heart. I know I can't fix him and have stopped trying but its killing me to see him hurting.

Any insight would be appreciated.

You are all so strong and wise here.  Thank you for sharing all your stories. It gives us hope that better days are really ahead.

[stayed]

I think they can come out of it without a counselor.  In the early stages, a counselor doesn't generally help much.  They only "hear" what they want to hear in the first place, so no matter what the counselor said to him, he would translate it to VALIDATE how he is feeling, or behaving or whatever. 

My h went to counselors in the early stages and did exactly what I said above.  Useless.  His experience from the counseling he received during his crisis, certainly POISONED his impression of how helpful they can or can't be.  To this day, he refuses to "see" that he was just as much responsible for what he saw as, USELESS help.  He seems to think that these counselors should be able to read his mind and should have somehow FORCED him to see, how ridiculous he was behaving. 

I can't see how visiting a counselor will help you, if you have a NEGATIVE/biased opinion about them before you even start.  Mind you, some of these counselors really are USELESS! 

hugs Stayed

[Niek]

I also thought my H would never go to see a counselor. He never wanted anything to do with psychiatrists, although OW is working as a cleaning lady in a psychiatrical hospital. Wonder were they are talking about. LOL!!!
Last year I arranged an appointment for him but the day before he start to text me. And although I reacted very quite the messages became more and more hostile and the last one was  saying that he was not going to see any therapist.
Now, one year later he is more quite and living more in reality I think. Last week we went to see a counselor together with D19 and D22. I think his life is a mess. Had a car accident two weeks ago, his work is a mess, he had to dismiss one of his employees due to sever losses since his crisis etc. etc. He wrote me a very angry email saying that it is all his fault cause he ran away from us. But he was willing to talk to somebody to see what was wrong with him.
Next week we will go for counseling together. But there is still a long way to go I think, cause he still in denial sometimes. I guess that is safer that seeing the truth.

I would advise you to try to find out the cause of his MC so in case he wants to see a counselor you can look for somebody specialized. In my case my H is a 2nd generation war victim. Our therapist is specialized in this kind of people.

[Niek]

I wonder what withdrawal looks like if you are dealing with a clinging boomerang. My guess is that they never withdraw. So do they skip that stage? Any suggestions?

[Ready2Transform]

Liminality is a different kind of withdrawal than withdrawing their contact type.  Here's what RCR says on it:

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/mlc_overview_liminality.html

Liminality is the means to reintegrating the Shadow fragments. Liminal Depression serves a purpose. There are times when we need to go down within ourselves for self-contemplation and growth. This may be a time of withdrawal into quiet solitude, but for not all people withdraw and there are those who will continue to manifest their depression through escalating anger; as the depression worsens, his behaviour may become more erratic and volatile.

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=732

Are Liminality and Withdrawal the same?
No. Liminality is one of the main stages of MLC.

    Separation
    Liminality
    Rebirth
    Reintegration

Withdrawal is an action. It happens many times in different places throughout MLC—such as alienator withdrawal which happens in the early days, weeks and even months after the breakup; that sort of withdrawal is the addictive type. So it is not a conscious action to withdraw into one’s Self or away from someone or something. Alienator withdrawal is the physiological and psychological reactions to breaking contact with the addictive source.
The withdrawal you are talking about is considered a stage of MLC according to Jim Conway’s version of the stages. He places it at the end or after Depression—it may run during Depression, it may follow or both.

[Niek]

Oh thnx for the information. I understand now.

[calamity]

Help. I'm confused. 

Any contact w. my h makes me shake, literally, even an email.  He wants to visit tomorrow--I have plans but could fit in an hour.  I am confused about what I am doing.  I do/don't want to see him.  He is in replay--am I paving the way by seeing him?  Is it good 'strategy' to keep seeing him or should I not think 'strategy'.  IDK.  I feel like he will just slip away forever if I don't keep contact & yet I think he just checks to see everything is the same so he can go on his merry way.  Or else he wants to nag me about the separation agreement.

I don't know of any couples who have reconciled who haven't stayed 'friends'.   

I am wavering between trying to forget he exists & wanting to keep a link.  Maybe email contact is enough.  I still panic, even on the phone.  With email, I wait at least 3 hours before answering & can keep a 'happy' tone. 

Is it being a lighthouse when he never sees me?

I need to be strong enough [detached! ] to see him without, at least, physical symptoms.  I cannot believe it makes me sick to my stomach to talk to my own h. 

One thing I am sure of--I am confused!