[underpressure]

I have an idea for a discussion. My SIL asked me a few question when we were texting last night, and I had a hard time answering them. I figure they must be good questions! I would love to get a peek other people's answers.

1. Does your spouse have kindness in them?
1.a. What has your spouse done that demonstrates their kindness?

2. When you miss your spouse, what do you miss most?

[JD]

1. Does your spouse have kindness in them?
1.a. What has your spouse done that demonstrates their kindness?

Yes my Zombie spouse has kindness in him. 
Lately is he offering suggestions to alleviate a condition I have had recur that causes me extreme pain.
He even gave me extra funds to achieve that.

2. When you miss your spouse, what do you miss most?
I miss his presence, his laugh, and his kindness.

[calamity]

Yes my h is a very kind person.  The hster is not.
My h is careful with other people's feelings--never criticizes.  The hster complains & criticizes.
I too miss his kindness but mostly I miss sharing & hugs.

[underpressure]

1. Does your spouse have kindness in them? What has your spouse done that demonstrates their kindness?

I often find myself thinking that my H has never been kind. That every kind thing he did must have been at root to fufill some selfish need of his own. I don't want to erase or re-write history like the MLCer does. I want to remember the good things. We had a lot of fun. We enjoy each other's company even now.

But again, kindness?

Wikipedia: "Kindness is the act or the state of being kind, being marked by good and charitable behavior, pleasant disposition, and concern for others. It is known as a virtue, and recognized as a value in many cultures and religions (see ethics in religion). Research has shown that acts of kindness does not only benefit receivers of the kind act, but also the giver, as a result of the release of neurotransmitters responsible for feelings of contentment and relaxation when such acts are committed."

See Also: Altruism, Compassion, Emotion, Empathy, Generosity, Random act of kindess, Pay it forward, Reciprocity, Sympathy...

I often think, perhaps because of MLC, that I am dealing with a Narcissist husband. So kindness seems remote. But I will try.

Generosity, Provider, Nurturer: He fetches me things. He provides. He will stop at the store for me on the way home from work and ask me to send him a list. Even when separated he does this. He buys me chocolate, ice cream, dishwashing detergent, olive oil, steak, sushi, double-sided tape. Pretty much anything. If I am sick, that's how he nurtures: he buys me stuff at the grocery store. And picks up my prescription. In 13 years he has never not done this. Even when he was cheating on me. He does not ask to be reimbursed.

Kindness, Generosity: He told his ex wife 2 years after the birth of his daughter that he did not want any more children. Yet 12 years later he told me "I guess I will have to let you have a kid". And he did. One who is the greatest gift I have ever gotten. So this was generous and perhaps kind. If our son weren't his kid also, it would be selfless.

Generosity/Kindness: He is often and consistently generous with his frequent-flyer miles and either offers or gives them to my family members in order for me to spend time with them. I can't think of how this could at bottom be a selfish act.

Kindness: He brought me a single rose last valentine's day and left it on my windshield. We were separated, and i did nothing in return for him on V-Day. Although: He planned for this and had it in his calendar with a reminder. Which makes me wonder, as at that point we were still on the path for divorce.

Kindness: When we first started dating he helped me find an apartment very near to his house. And helped me move a new mattress in. He gave me an extra job of painting his house in artistic finishes (although I wonder if both of these instances were thinly masked ways of controlling me).

Kindness: is it a stretch to say it is kind of him to do the dishes? He often would say "i will get to these dishes eventually" after I had made him an extravagant meal. My cooking for him is not part of the marriage vows. So neither is him doing the dishes, right? It is nice when he does the dishes. And he is pretty good at them. Although he is terrible at loading the dishwasher 

Kindness: He washes my yoga gear after yoga when I come to his man-cave. OKAY, the reason he does it is so I will come there and be relaxed. He is perhaps just using me, and this is a highly manipulative act. But I alwasy think it's great that he does my laundry. Also that he gives me a foot massage. He thinks that is great of him too. I digress.

2. When you miss your spouse, what do you miss most?

I miss him looking at me. I miss his voice. I miss his physical presence. I feel cold without it. The room seems dead without it. I like his face. I used to really like the way he smells. Now he doesn't seem to have a pheromone odor anymore...but I remember that distinctly. I love driving long trips with him next to me. We talked easily when we drove together. I miss his compliments. I miss hearing him play with our son. I miss going out to dinner with him all dressed up, and going to see plays or lectures. And having non-sarcastic debates with him about ideas. I miss going to bookstores with him as we both love books. I miss having him help me rebuild the house.

[FindingJoJo]

 Does your spouse have kindness in them?  Yes
1.a. What has your spouse done that demonstrates their kindness?  No very little - before he would say sweet things everyday, he would make sure I was okay, he would defend me when others made comments.  Now - he views it as kind that he did a batch of laundry while he was packing to leave me.

2. When you miss your spouse, what do you miss most?  I miss the guy who use to wake up every morning and say here I am world, would walk in and light up a room would be silly and make me laugh.  He had a presence and laughter in his eyes.  Now he is a shell with dead eyes.

[NewAttitude]

1. Does your spouse have kindness in them?  Yes!
1.a. What has your spouse done that demonstrates their kindness?  He is kind to everyone.  I am not sure what specific acts of kindness he has done for me recently.  I have to say, I notice that he sometimes attempts to reign in his grouchiness towards me.  Does that count? It's been forever since he has given a gift or made a call or simply touched me in a caring way-like a hug or a kiss or an arm around the shoulder.

2. When you miss your spouse, what do you miss most?  I miss his laughter with me, his smile, his voice, his 'charm', his excitement and joy.  I am happy that he gets some of that with our daughter and his brother and I hope he has some joy in his life while back at work. I wish I was included in his memory of good people, good things and that he could have fun with me again.  I miss our good times.  I miss the family we were before the trauma began.

[Anjae]

1. Does your spouse have kindness in them?  Real husband yes, MLC version, don’t think so but maybe towards others.

1.a. What has your spouse done that demonstrates their kindness? 
In MLC? Towards me, nothing. Before all kinds of things. Being caring, considerate, being there for me, you name it.

2. When you miss your spouse, what do you miss most?  His laughter, ml, talking to each other, do joint projects together, drive around the country together, hugs & cuddles.

[Trustandlove]

Before all this my H was one of the kindest people imaginable -- he didn't have a cruel bone in his body.  I don't know where that person has gone; he has either been completely disconnected, or outright harsh. 

I just miss HIM.  The whole package.  The good and the 'irritating'.  The person walking around in his body right now isn't 'him'. 

[underpressure]

It was a real struggle for me to find "kindness" in my husband that I know today. A few months ago it would have been much harder. Almost everything he did then and does now could be seen as a strange manipulation or something done with anger at the base of it...even if it benefits me in some way. Or it's just outright mean, spiteful, irrationally spewing. Hurtful. Manipulative. Torturing. Angry.

But the purpose of my SIL's question I think was the same as I remember in Marriage Counseling. We had to open each time by saying something really truly nice about our spouse. No buts following. (No comma, buts!). This is a way to change the the spiral from downward to upward. It made me feel better to find nice things about my husband and just leave them at that. Even though he may be a complete monster right now. Or seem that way. Even if he is not the man I married, or seems that way.

They cycle forward and back. Sometimes they are like we remembered them, sometimes they are at their worst, or just unrecognizable. Some of them may adopt a completely new persona and stay in it for extended periods. I don't know if having less of a personality change makes it less of a crisis. My H was very strange for a while and now he is still someone new, but less angry and more pathetic. It's all over the place. He has a different costume for each of these characters. Some of it is kind. There is STILL goodness in him despite his destruction.

I think my challenge is to have compassion for him while at the same time keeping healthy boundaries (saying "no" to his cake-eating, and not joining him in his destructive cycling).

[Peony2012]

1. Does your spouse have kindness in them? What has your spouse done that demonstrates their kindness?

I often find myself thinking that my H has never been kind. That every kind thing he did must have been at root to fufill some selfish need of his own. I don't want to erase or re-write history like the MLCer does. I want to remember the good things. We had a lot of fun. We enjoy each other's company even now.

But again, kindness?

WOW UP, that really made me think!!!! 
Thank you for the discussion!

H before MLC would go to the end of the world for me... he would leave little notes all around the house, send me flowers on valentines day, fix anything in the house I asked him for... but then, you are quite right, I've been asking myself the same question: "Is there a chance that he only did these things to fulfill a need in himself?"

REAL kindness? I'm not so sure anymore. But then, I find it harder and harder to remember the 'real' H... it's like his personality has been mixed up with the selfish Monster I got to know in the last 2 and a bit years (or even longer)... So I'm not sure anymore.

And what do I miss the most?
I miss old H's silly sense of humor! I miss him being silly and happy. I miss US enjoying life together. We shared the same interests and tastes. Music. Food. Sex. We were so affectionate towards each other. Holding hands. Practical things like doing DIY around the house, picking furniture at car boot sales and getting excited about the future. OUR future.

Oh dear. I really really miss that. We had a blast. 

peonyxxx