[stayed]

I don't know what any of this is.  It sounds like extremely powerful men who have an powerfully inflated sense of entitlement.  That being said, I dare say they are JUST as likely to have an MLC as any other man or woman.   Unfortunately, theirs is just a billions times more public.

The one thing that does confuse me though, is how quickly we LBS's are to label the "alienation or OP" BPD or narcissistic, yet God forbid if anybody were to "suggest" that their MLCer's had such afflictions!!!!   Why is that?  What makes the two so different in our minds?   

The truth is, whatever these people are afflicted with, they are hurting innocent people.  No matter who they are, however powerful or not, they are hurting innocent people. 

[osb]

The one thing that does confuse me though, is how quickly we LBS's are to label the "alienation or OP" BPD or narcissistic, yet God forbid if anybody were to "suggest" that their MLCer's had such afflictions!!!!   Why is that?  What makes the two so different in our minds?   

I think it's right in the label. A narcissistic personality disorder has a fairly clear psychiatric definition; so does borderline personality. They're life-long; pretty much from the point of adult personality development. People can develop 'traits' of these personalities later in life, but usually transiently, and that doesn't really earn them the label.

We've known our spouses for a long time. So we generally can say with a clear head and heart that they didn't have a personality disorder beforehand. This behaviour appears new (and therefore we hope, transient!). However the alienators drop into our lives in medias res, and we have no idea who or how they were before - so we have no hesitation in labelling them ("Hey, I get a feeling of negative transference from the OW so she must be BPD!!"). In fact we often have no idea, nor do we usually want to know the OP's well enough to get insight into their actual personalities. Convenient stick to beat 'em with, though. 

[stayed]

EXACTLY osb!  We WANT to hate the OP, we want a reason to be able to hate them! We don't mind them having a "life time" disorder! In fact it would be nice if they did, as they would have a life time of hell and their DISORDER generally made sure they had if not an unpleasant life, but a chaotic, unsatisfying life.   

We definitely don't WANT our spouse to have such a thing, as he might not ever come out of it.  Plus, truly, we don't want to see them "like this" the rest of their lives.  That would just be sad.  Even if they NEVER returned to us, remaining in this state is beyond our imagination. 

I think the middle is where a lot of this stuff is sorted out.  I think even in couples that reconcile, I believe there is a "middle".  Early returners, can prevent an LBSer from "getting through" their entire load of "junk".  Whether they are with you or not, sorting through how a friend betrays and abandons (even if they never leave home, emotionally they abandon you) someone they love, requires a lot of processing. 

Nothing easy about any part of this!  Nobody has it any better or worse then the other.  If we let it, this has to be good for us.  Without a doubt we have into places we would never have done so, IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED.  That's a good thing, ISN'T IT???

Ahhhhhhhhhh, I don't know!

hugs Stayed

[Anjae]

Without a doubt we have into places we would never have done so, IF THIS HAD NOT HAPPENED.  That's a good thing, ISN'T IT???

No, not really. Why would it be a good thing to visit the places we have visited? ... Wouldn’t wish it upon my worst enemy (if I had one).  There is the growth issue but I think we would grow anyway. Maybe slowly, maybe in a nicer way, but we would.

[stayed]

I can't speak on your behalf AnneJ, but I can speak on my own.  I know for a fact, my life went on without too many changes until this happened.  I am convinced that if this had not occurred, my h and I would probably still be doing exactly what we had been doing for a good number of years.  I know I had come to the conclusion that MARRIAGES of duration, simply became like our's had.

I have talked to many people who also believe that they would not have CHANGED within themselves, if this had not happened.  I apologize I was not SPEAKING on your behalf or anybody else, just my own and some others that I know. 

hugs Stayed

[Anjae]

My life, relationship with husband before we were married and marriage had many, many changes. Too many perhaps… After BD and me back home is the last ones have been the years of least change in my whole life. In fact, it had become boring. He keeps clubbing, I keep looking after my bedridden grandmother. Hardly any change, hardly anything new to learn…

As for the changes within myself… Whatever they may be, I consider them very small (in the grand order of things) and they have not turned me into a better person. So, of course, somewhere in this I’ve failed… Or maybe I just preferred the previous version of me…

The few real life people I know who have had MLC and left the spouse, did not reconciled. I don’t manage to notice much change in them, except that the husband (the cheater) tries and tries and tries to find someone to settle with in a relationship and never manages. The wives remarried. Also, the husband’s keep saying leaving the first wife was the biggest mistake of their lives.

But I’m opened to in the future be able to say: this was the best that happened to me (us? )… So far it wasn’t and I would be lying if I said it was.

[hope!]

Stayed I agree with you 100%. I too know that I would still be plodding on just the way we were before this happened. I certainly would not have grown like I have since H left.

We do get forced, drop kicked, whatever you wish to call it, into our own search for self, but I can hand on heart say I am truly happy with who I am becoming, and grateful for the gift of time.

The pain is immense that we all go through but that has also made me a far stronger person. I have become more forgiving and I have learnt I can control anyone elses happiness or life choices other than my own!

[stayed]

Me too, hope... and I can't say that I wanted to do this, nor did I jump into the fray very willing.  The end result was so unexpected... but I can honestly say, I am proud of what came out the other side.

Hugs Hope... Stayed

[hope!]

Seconded again stayed!! I was not too willing to begin with, but I have a new found confidence, I had become a shadow of my former self before this happened! I am know enjoying finding me and taking up old hobbies that I let slip to please others!

(((Hugs))) to you

Hope xx