[Mermaid]

I gave H an ultimatum when I said to choose between OW (an EA) and me. He refuses to admit that it's an EA, although it meets all the criteria. He refused to make a choice. He felt controlled by the ultimatum. So I stopped.

A boundary is an LBS way of self protection. There is no ultimatum, but the idea (I think) is that we protect ourselves from knowing too much, from feeling too much and too much interaction with the person who causes us pain by going dark, dim, or no contact. I haven't got to that point yet. I don't know how else to establish my boundaries. Others wiser than me will comment!

[Rollercoasterider]

Mermaid has the idea. An ultimatum is when you force the MLCer to make a choice or else...choose the OW and leave or stop cheating and stay here with me.

Boundaries are often rules, but they are about self-protection. Rule boundaries are things such as not allowing your MLCer access to the house. But there are also emotional boundaries--think of how different cultures have different amounts of personal space that are acceptable in various situations. That is a type of boundary, if someone gets in your face, they are violating a pesonal boundary. Boundaries are about not allowing your MLCer to walk all over you--not allowing abuse. Your MLCer may still act abusively, but you will not take the abuse--let the alienator take it, many are willing. Contact levels like Dark and Dim are more like personal space boundaries, they are unofficial and emotional. No Contact is often a rule boundary where you tell your MLCer you do not want him to contact you...depending on the situation you may an include an until.

[Standing Wife]

anyone have any insight to how long a relationship (and I use the term very loosly) between a MLCer and  OW who clearly has a borderline personlity disorder "blows up"? 

I understand the dinamics that make this an ideal sitation in the beginning...  MLC seems to be the center of this person's univers and they understand everything about them and they are playing knight in shining armor... but when it turns to the core of the disorder and the OW is now wanting all the focus on them and lieing to create reasons to be "rescued" and the control and jealousy are full swing... if the MLCer ran from his family because he couldn't deal with anything, how long will he put up with this from someone that there is no history or years of attachment to??

Just a question looking for anyone else's thoughts, views, or personal experiences

[Mermaid]

Welcome to the board, SW.

Borderline personalities are inherently unstable with difficulties establishing relationships. Even if your MLCer is playing the knight in shining armour, this will appeal to only one side of him. He will probably get exhasuted of the emotional changes (he has his own), the lies, the manipulation, and ultimately, the lack of real support for himself.

But this, for the time being, is his problem. He needs to realise this.

You need to look after yourself. Tell us more, and what your strategies are to protect yourself (and your children?)

[readytofixmyselffirst]

I am no expert, but this is when the cycling begins in earnest. On one hand, the MLC likes to be the rescurer and the lack of commitment, and the ease of the relationship. After all, the point is for the MLCer to find "happiness" in the relationship. That is also where the terms soul mate and long-lost love come into play.

Also, just like an addictive substance, the initial high is very powerful. As the user attempts to getthe high back, they find themselves putting more and more effort without the same results. They then try to pull back. That is why the MLCer comes back. Then they are pulled back to the OW/OM thinking that they still can get what they desired results again. In your case, I believe the blow ups will increase the cycling but not necessarily speed up or slow down the length of the affair.

The problem is for us as LBSers to stand by while our spouse goes back and forth. Also the OM/OW is playing games as well. It is not easy because our emotions are so tied by the issues.

That is why it is important to detach. Then lots and lots of patience.

This is also my limited interpretation of what I have read on other posts and articles. Others will join in with more details and better explanations. (((Hugs)))

[Buggy31]

My MLCer has been in EA for about 18 months with OW who is BD.  Last year she put the pressure on him to leave us and he woke up to reality and ended things.  As he was going througH OW withdrawl he revealed some things.  One thing was that it was like a game and they would have to take things to the next level when they got stale.  He said when something wasn't working anymore they'd step it up.  Kind of like what RTFMF describles.  He did get sucked back into affair after going through OW withdrawl a bit.  I saw panic attacks, depression, withdrawl etc.  Now she is displaying some very controling manipulative behavior that is very much centered on attention. 

[LettingGo]

RTFMSF sounds like he knows what he's talking about... The cycling is intense. They really don't even seem to LIKE OW/OM - my husband said to me "It's like you said... like maybe I'm addicted or something and I can't stop myself." This was after he called me to ask him to "let him go". It is sick.I'm glad it's not me, but I'm angry they can't just "snap out of it".

If you are old enough to remember that movie "Cabaret" with Liza Minelli and Joel Grey, you might recall a musical number mocking Jews where he sings a love song to a very unattractive figure about "If you could see her through my eyes" and the whole audience is laughing, that is how I feel about their blindness to OW/OM faults. Don't get me wrong, the reference was just about the song title and  lyrics and nothing about ethnicity.

I actually think cycling is good because OW/OM starts to see that their love object is not so committed to them after all. That is when they will get jealous and controlling. My husband's OW didn't want him coming in our house because she knows he has slept with me (a LOT, but she probably only heard "1 time by accident in my sleep" or some stupid story). Hello!! It's ok if he sleeps with his WIFE, ya big dummy! It's YOU he shouldn't be sleeping with!!

The tricky part of cycling is how to not feel like a doormat. Just know in the back of your rational mind that this is normal for MLC, nothing else.

[Standing Wife]

yeah.. this is not someone he would have ever dated or even found attractive... it's meer convenience ... it sickens me that he has allowed himself to sink so low as to shack up with a woman he doesn't even know and allow her to control who he sees and when even to the point of insisting on meeting his family (all of whom wish to have nothing to do with a person who would move a married man out of his home and into hers knowing that there are kids involved and the wife is batteling cancer.. did I mention this woman is a nurse)...  it is slowly burning out though.. she keeps trying to exert more and more control (she's jealous, she lies, she manipulates and then tries to control him and he is starting to fight back...they are fighting constantly)

she has every reason to be jealous.. I'm younger, thinner, prettier, he loves me, his kids love me, and his family love me and we have 22 years of GOOD history together (before his dad was diagnoses with termal cancer and in hind sight this was the start of his crisis.. my second cancer diagnosis was what "pushed him over the edge" and brought on the bomb drop) and I refuse to give her any kind of satisfaction at all as far as displays of anger or attacks towards her...  I'm not going to give him a reason to defend her... she is doing enough to say things against me and make htings up that didn't happen trying to get H to defend her or bad mouth me..but he is catching her in these lies and beliees me more and more and fights with her are escalating... give someone enough rope and they will always hang themselves I always say

[Buggy31]

I agree with all you stated SW.  My H other woman is also TOTALLY the opposite of what he would have been attracted to.  If she was standing in a line up of woman she would be my last thought.  AT least from a physical standpoint.  I don't know much of her personality but I know the things she has done and there is CONTROL written all over it.  SHe's got him wrapped tight.  It's such a game, an ugly ugly game.

[Rollercoasterider]

I understand the dinamics that make this an ideal sitation in the beginning...

So am I safe to assume that you have read the articles on Affairs and MLC Personality Dynamics?
 

if the MLCer ran from his family because he couldn't deal with anything, how long will he put up with this from someone that there is no history or years of attachment to??

He will put up with the alienator as long as he is weaker than the strength of the emotional blackmail used against him.