[stayed]

Oh yea, wondering... you nailed it!

hugs Stayed

[wondering]

Well Learning and I were just sorta of discussing something similar while we had lunch together. I was telling her, while H and I are working on our marriage/reconnection, it was nothing I did or said that helped his MLC along which is still ongoing. If fact I did/do much wrong. But, I believe it was learning to stand, to start to heal, to "live" again that kept the door open.  It's only if and when the MLCer decides to turn towards the LBS whether we are still willingly to try to make it work.  I'm sure there are a lot of factors involved in standing.  How much damage did the MLCer do, length of time, etc.  I'm still standing, no guarantees this time will work.  Infidelity , mistrust is most difficult to get through but it's a work in progress.  I believe it will take us both several years....but it's worth it with the possibility of a even better marriage.

[OldPilot]

RCR is starting a series on the blog about the subject, first post came out earlier today

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=1346

Comments?

[Anjae]

I think this first post is similar to articles on the main site. Looking forward to read RCr further blog posts on the issue.

However I have a problem with this (always had since I first read it): “my reality was that Sweetheart was choosing to cheat and leave. “  If an MLCer is choosing to leave, cheat, mistreat the spouse then, to me, it contradicts the urge/compulsion (to abandon, to run, etc).

The urge/compulsion to me is similar to the one in drug addicts/alcoholics. It is not a case of choice but of not be able to stop it. If MLCers are choosing, and totally aware of their choice, then, well, to me it makes no sense to have compassion or stand for them.

I think they are not fully aware of what they’re doing but that may be me trying to smooth the whole thing…

[kikki]

I was telling her, while H and I are working on our marriage/reconnection, it was nothing I did or said that helped his MLC along which is still ongoing. If fact I did/do much wrong. But, I believe it was learning to stand, to start to heal, to "live" again that kept the door open.

Wondering - the longer this goes on, the more that this is sinking in, and I guess is the reason why whatever we choose to do must be for ourselves, first and foremost.  What makes this easiest for us to get through this mess?

I'm sure there are a lot of factors involved in standing.  How much damage did the MLCer do, length of time, etc. 

Absolutely agree with this.  Most of us are yet to find out how far our spouses are going to push this thing.

However I have a problem with this (always had since I first read it): “my reality was that Sweetheart was choosing to cheat and leave. “  If an MLCer is choosing to leave, cheat, mistreat the spouse then, to me, it contradicts the urge/compulsion (to abandon, to run, etc).

The urge/compulsion to me is similar to the one in drug addicts/alcoholics. It is not a case of choice but of not be able to stop it. If MLCers are choosing, and totally aware of their choice, then, well, to me it makes no sense to have compassion or stand for them.

I think they are not fully aware of what they’re doing but that may be me trying to smooth the whole thing…

AnneJ, my thinking is that they are choosing to do what they are doing, but they are making those choices within a newly warped and distorted perception.
Kind of makes sense to them at the time, but underneath it all, they know it's wrong.  Personally, I believe the brain function is affected which changes their personality, morality and impulsivity.  Sadly, this affects their decision making, what they perceive is acceptable, and their lack of empathy towards others regarding the devastation this causes. 

Not giving them a free pass at all, but when you get bad behaviour, I do believe we need to look at brain function (unless of course that bad behaviour was there all along), which for most of us, it wasn't.

[I believe in angels]

Hi they are choosing to cheat etc as they know whatvthey are doing but their choosing is taken with an irrational mind and with a lack if clarity, so they think this Is the only choice, so run and hide from the real issues. As an unrepressed person I have a rational and a sense of clarity so I would not choose to run and hide, I have found out what is, has happened with my MLc er and I am design with my issues and my choice is to live day to day and get on with my life. My h choice is still irrational and lacking clarity, so his life is not going forward, but same old, same old, everyday.

We all make choices every day but they have to be informed and made with a sound mind. We all know MLc ers don't have that.

[Anjae]

Kikki And G Hewitt, I know about the brain thing, and I get they are making choices within an altered mind but to me, in the context it is placed, that “choosing” is misleading and contradictory to the urge factor. The main site, and blog post, do not include notes on the brain function, so, you just read ““my reality was that Sweetheart was choosing to cheat and leave. “

Maybe I’m not making myself clear?... Anyway, choosing is not the word I would have used in the context RCR used it. Probably it would be “my reality is my husband was having a brain imbalance that created a compulsion to cheat and leave”.

[kikki]

Hi Anne
I knew what you meant, and I was describing how I view things.  I think (but RCR would have to speak for herself) that RCR might view things slightly differently?

From what I have read, RCR believes that there is altered perception, but possibly believes it is because of the psychology of Jungian theory, developmental theory etc, as written in the articles???

So, I understand why she would write this - just that for me, I needed to understand it in a more physical way.  For me that came with recent developments and study in brain scanning and research.

Just as RCR writes about Dis-ease rather than disease.  This has always caused me to be curious, and personally, from all that I have read, I do believe it is disease.  Just that very little is known about it. 

[kikki]

HB used to occasionally write about altered brain chemistry, but it wasn't her area of interest either.  I haven't ever read anything else written about this subject from her - as her approach is also along different lines. 

For instance - the voices of the children that she writes about, can be explained medically, with very low serotonin levels which give rise to the black thoughts and negative voices. 

As this is such a large jigsaw puzzle, it is great to have all of these ideas coming together. 

[Anjae]

Hi Kikki,

I would also like to hear from RCR on the matter as well.

Have you been reading my lastest thread, the one where I meet a neuroquantum scientist? I’ve been making some post about the brain, and a few others have been leaving their contributions.

I’m currently finishing a post on more brain stuff and where I talk about maybe trying to do my Theory of Everything. That is, how will the neurological/chemical part combines with the development/personality, if it does… I’m trying to think how to interchange it all.

Like you I need to understand it in more physical ways. And for me, the alterations that go on during MLC are a disease, or, at least, a temporary medical condition, that, if understood and spotted on time, could be mitigated.

I like both RCR and HB writings. They help me to have other perspectives on the matter. I’m all for the biological cause, their views add the emotional and psychological level that I’m not so good with.

When f HB writes about the voices of the children reminds me of the voices a schizophrenic hears. We know MLCers have traits of several psychiatric conditions so I wouldn’t find it very weird if, at certain point in their crisis, they would have symptoms of schizophrenia. My cousin was diagnosed with schizophrenia, borderline, psychotic, obsessive-compulsive-disorder and bipolar (at least). He is none of those things but showed symptoms of them all.

Like you said, the voices could also be from depression. Suicidal people hear a voice in their head telling them it is over. My cousin heard that voice when he was spiralling deep into rock bottom.