[JAG]

I agree with you 100% stayed.  I think that it is easier to forgive a stranger or a person that we will never have to live with.  Maybe that is why we think forgiveness is not that hard.  Right now, I have "forgiven" my H for his infidelity.  It is a superficial forgiveness, a detached forgiveness.  Looking at my situation, I don't think I would ever become husband and wife with him again...coparents/friendly, yes....love partners....no.  Forgiving some of the behaviors towards me and the kids is simply not a matter of pride, but a matter of safety. 

So I tip my hat to you and as the days pass I am more and more in awe of those of you that have reconciled.  I know that even though I am a forgiving person...maybe I am not that forgiving as I thought. 

[FindingJoJo]

But lets not forget that it will be us who get to decide if we want, or don't want, them back.

This is what I'm using standing for. I don't want to be so desperate to have him back that if he comes back all of a sudden I realize that I really DON"T want him back...... better to know what I want in advance as opposed to after the fact.........

I agree that is one very good thing about standing is that we are blessed with the time to know what we will want.  I know with my last visit and the contact I have I keep telling my H one day at a time.  Honestly I am too focused on what I need in my life and my goals to deal much with him and his issues right now.

[FindingJoJo]

  Maybe that is why we think forgiveness is not that hard. 

I think anyone who thinks forgiveness is easy is fooling themselves.  I do think it is a process and it occurs with each stage of the journey but it isn't impossible and it can be lasting.  It is a choice and a continual process as we live this life and are in different stages.  I do think anger and the way we harbor it or release it affects forgiveness.  I see my MiL who is a very angry person and negative, forgiveness is not in her vocabulary.  For each person the act, thought or idea of forgiveness means different things and is also a different process for that individual.  I don't think anyone can know how they will handle forgiveness when faced with different  situations, on the same note another person cannot predict how someone will react, forgive or be during their own reconnection. 

I know in my case with H at different times during our journey I have been faced with new feelings I was unaware of, including anger that reared up.  I dealt with that situation as it occurred do I think that will be the last of it?  No, but I do know for me and what i believe forgiveness is for me and is not giving my H a free pass or about condoning his behavior.  It may be different for others and that is okay too,  each person is different and at different levels of this process and each person will choose forgiveness following their own path.  It doesn't make anyone more right or more wrong and it certainly doesn't mean we know how everyone will act during each stage of the process, it is unpredictable and is a different process for each person because we are different.

I respect everyone's own experience here and use it to learn and grow.  But just because it happened in a certain way for one person doesn't mean it will be that way for another and it doesn't negate how we deal with these issues as they crop up.  For myself my focus is different and it is individual for me and the one great thing about this entire process is that I am an individual with my own values.  I know I will march to the drum that is my path delusional or not, but with a smile about my choices because they are mine and this journey is my journey for me.

[SSG]

Thanks for resurfacing this OP....never hurts to read and re-read.  I believe I will be in it for the long haul.

SG

[Mitzpah]

Thanks for resurfacing this OP....never hurts to read and re-read.  I believe I will be in it for the long haul.

SG

Reflecting on this, yep -long haul it is!

[riverbirch]

Why Stand?

I loved my husband with all my heart. We had been together since I was sixteen and have been through all kinds of stuff, including having a child at that age.

Well, I have always known I was not like everyone else. I have even told people I am not normal.I do not listen to others. I follow my intuition. There was just something out there telling me not to give up.

I have a whole different situation. My husband and I divorced for financial reasons pre bomb drop. So I was divorced on paper when he left. I did not feel divorced then or after he left.

My younger sister had just finished a long marriage with her husband. He was like a brother. He cheated and did all kinds of stuff. She had enough,and is very bitter still. She went out to bars trying to find someone. I could feel her and her friends loneliness, when I went out with them a few times after my bd. I knew right then, I was not meant to be away from my husband/ex.

No matter what I did or where I went, I felt not right. I found this place and it opened my eyes. Most people just divorce and say move on. I didn't feel like that. It wouldn't happen. No matter what some said I couldn't let him out of my life.

I knew he wasn't right the day he walked out. Then the day I saw he bought a camper to live in, in his workshop! No running water and no bathroom! Dark and alone.

[Madmax]

I stand (for the time being, at least) because right after bd h told me he would come back to me a better person when this was all over. 

If he pushes through a divorce, I don't think I could justify standing, as sad as that would be.

[Mermaid]

We had a similar thread of this name when the forum opened in May 2010, aclled "Benefits and detriments to standing" For anyone who's interested, it's here:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=159.0

It's interesting that there are different types of answer now. Back in 2010 it was all so confusing. We had threads like "Does anyone get back together?". Now we have "Return Stories" to give us hope. Perhaps that hope gives expectations. There's no real reason, empirically, to believe in the time scales for MLC. MLC is not a disease, but as RCR so wisely puts it, it's a dis-ease (lack of ease), and a time of inner turmoil. That is how my H sees it now... a time when he was no longer sure of his previous certainties. There are no guarentees about how things are going to turn out. Our spouse may come to feel certain that they do not want to be married to us. It doesn't mean they are in a tunnel.

Personally, I believe my answers will be different  now in hindsight than back in Jan 2009 when H first proclaimed he no longer loved me. In May 2010 I said

. I am standing because I love my H, I believe that we can still have a future together, and I believe he needs my support

In hindsight, I can say that H definately did need my support. As a CB he both needed me and rejected me. But being needed is not reason enough to stand.

The truth is that I was a clinger. Many of us cling to who and what we know. (It's the cause of a lot of pain, and one of the 4 noble truths of Buddhism, a philosophy of life that I consider very wise).

 In my case, the truth was that I didn't want a life without H. I had given up literally everything to be with him; job, home, culture, language, country... I gained a lot too, but without him I didn't know who I was or what my life was about. I know I am not the only one, but I didn't have my family around to return to.

And then, when I was at my deepest point of despair (those moments when we want the earth to open and swallow us whole, with all our pain and anger with us), I suddenly felt a voice within saying "he still loves you really".

I am not religious, but it felt almost divine. What was it really? Wishful thinking? Intuition?

It kept me going.

However, it was only when I began to let go, to see I could exist without H (even though it seemed like a desolate future) that the tables really turned. He really didn't want to lose me (he's a CB!)

So why did I stand? It was a dream, a belief, a hope that was deep in my sense of self. I wasn't separate from my marriage, and my H; it was part of me. I asked myself why I needed it so much, and why it was so hard to let go. The answer only came when I finally did begin to let go.

Yet, as H was a CB, my letting go was not so radical an experience as some LBS here experience. Those married to vanishers are forced to let go, suffer far more, but probably change more than I did too.

My H is not perfect (neither am I).  Am I stronger? Yes, I think so. Is my marriage stronger? Things are not perfect, but they are different. I am glad he is back and so, he says, is he.

[Eatsma]

Mermaid -

That was an incredibly powerful thing for me to read.  Thank you for taking the time to write it.

I especially identified with the fact that you didn't have a family to return to....For years my H and I have said that we were creating our own family, and we were so proud of that.  Life right now feels very lonely.

I also marveled at the description of wanting the earth to open and swallow us whole.  I can't tell you how often I have the image of just lying on the ground and wanting to just melt into the earth and disappear.  It's so odd how that's my fantasy...I suppose it's my own running away thing.

I, too, have a clinging boomerang.  He hasn't left - yet...He has talked about getting his own apartment once or twice, but he hasn't done it.  He travels so much for work (every other week) he doesn't really have to.  His work allows him to boomerang home and then back to OW.  Phew.

[Mermaid]

Dear MoonlightingPortia,

I hope my path gives you insight, and hope, at least for yourself to be whole. That's the real challenge, especially if you have made your H your world, like I did.

I suppose you have a while to go yet... my H had an EA, not a PA, and never admitted it, but she was his escape!!! Boundaries and compassion are both important.

Take care.
Mermaid xxxx