[Still]

others stay at home, maintain their financial responsibilities, but seem emotionally divorced.

That is an exact description of my situation. 

[OldPilot]

MLC doesn't exist in some cultures.

Which one?
I know cultures that divorce is ILLEGAL, and  MLC still exists.

[mercury]

MLC doesn't exist in some cultures.

When I was seeing a choose therapist, they don't believe in mental illness, one of his facts he like to through around was that in some cultures there is no Schizophrenia. I can't remember what country he was pulling that from I just remember thinking well maybe they call it something else or maybe they are so deep in struggling to survive that odd behavior isn't that unheard of.  I believe their is mental illness and in genetics increasing the odds of both physical and mental illness.

[Mermaid]

OP, It is rare in Japanese and Indian cultures. See
Menon (2001), "Middle Adulthood in Cultural Perspective," in Lachman, "Handbook of Midlife Development", John Wiley

[Mermaid]

Also see: The Social Construction of the Midlife Crisis: A Case Study in the Temporalities of Identity

This paper examines the emergence, reification, and dissemination of the "midlife crisis" from a sociology of knowledge perspective. Two decades of articles on the subject from both professional and mass media sources are content analyzed. Upon elaborating the various biological, psychological, and social psychological theories of this biographical phenomenon, we address such questions as how different disciplines portray the event, what patterns of interdisciplinary citations there are, and how these professional depictions lead into the mass media. The results suggest longitudinal declines in the frequency of reductionist explanations from the biological and psychiatric paradigms and increasing attention given to the interplay between social dynamics and personality structures. From this, a new sociocultural theory is posited, one portraying this subjective experience deriving not simply from age, but from external social temporalities. Specifically, we consider the particular cohort that most midlife research is based upon as well as the particular historical period when it reached middle age.
(Sociological inquiry vol 54 issue 3)
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119527233/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

[Mermaid]

The categorization of mental illnesses depend on how they are seen and accepted by society and the medical community, and has a lot to do with the power to control meanings. Someone who is regarded as eccentric at one time and in one culture would be regarded as mentally ill in another.

Cultures and economic development also affect the prevelance of mental disorders. Everything changes, from the organisation of communities, families, ideas of parenting and schooling, to the place individuals can take in society. Our rapidly changing cultures are leading to a much higher incidence of mental disorders, for very complex reasons.

Suggested reading: 2 essential books by Michel Foucault:  History of Madness and  The Birth of the Clinic: An Archaeology of Medical Perception

[HeartsBlessing]

In some cases, hormones are to blame; in others, chronic stress; and others have serious maladjustment issues from chilhood. The culture plays a part, so do biology and religious beliefs. MLC doesn't exist in some cultures.

Mermaid, just so you know the hormone imbalances suffered during menopause/andropause, the Midlife Transition are TWO different events.

It is ENTIRELY possible to go through  Menopause(women)/Andropause(men), which are entirely physical...and STILL have a MLC..which is entirely emotional.

It is also possible to be "mixed" going through BOTH at the SAME time or like I said, they can be experienced separately; that happened to ME. 

You can't blame shifting HORMONES for some of the stuff they do; irritability, yes, depression, yes...but blaming hormones for their behaviors toward the LBS, rebellion, having an affair, etc?  Come on, you know better than that.  These behaviors fall within the EMOTIONAL category of the transition/crisis.

I have yet to see "hot flashes" cause someone to go out and have an affair...sound strange? That's because it IS strange..and I've never seen it happen.

Regardless of what gets the blame, the fact is they have FREE WILL to chose, and they are very well aware of their actions as they go through MLC.   

I went through menopause first, then faced my transition; they went back to back;...and I was in there for 6 years because of various different things.

I was VERY aware of my actions/behaviors as I went through, though there are some things I can't remember to save my life...but I do know I didn't do anything wrong, or dishonor myself OR my husband.

However, my husband's transition ran in tandem with Andropause...and his was bad...he was in there for THREE years..and his transition turned into a crisis that was hard on him AND me.

IF I had NOT set boundaries on him when he kept threatening me; we STILL be in there, even now, cycling through and through and through.

And you are correct MLC is almost non existent in the Japanese, and Native Americans; the reason being that BOTH are in tune with their spiritual sides, and have most likely learned what they were supposed to learn from an early age....PLUS, they are most able to adjust as things happen, and are accepting of change...something to think about.

When I was going through with my husband so long ago, there was practically NOTHING on how to deal with this....all I had was someone who'd been there, the Lord and me to deal and learn from all of it.  I documented what I saw as I saw it...and as the years went by, apparently, I had only documented ONE way it could go...as evidenced by HOW LONG I stayed within my transition, if nothing else.

People have a tendency to sweep under the rug the things they don't want to see or believe in...many of the women I was dealing with back then were in their 50's and 60's, at least.....and they had a LOT of problems with me at first....remember I was in my early 30's at the time he went through...and I learned these lessons early.

I honestly NEVER expected to be back doing this again.

At first, when my sister in law told me that her brother was in a Midlife crisis, I denied it, refused to look at it...and just wanted it to go away..but it didn't...it got worse the longer I fought what I was going to have to do.

The ONLY book I read in regards to this subject was "Men in Midlife Crisis"..and that was IT, until my marriage was on more stable ground.  The rest I learned from the Lord, my guide, and from paying close attention to what my husband was doing/not doing.

It is what it is regardless of what anyone else says about it....MLC is certainly REAL...I didn't believe in it when my husband went in, but I'm here to tell you,  I had a "Come to Jesus" meeting several times with the Monster, and I'm here to tell you, it IS VERY real.

Just because people say it isn't real, doesn't make it the truth.....we KNOW from what we are seeing..and until these same people walk these same shoes....they will always deny that MLC exists...or try to downplay the effects on families...etc.

Take care.

[Mermaid]

HB, Thanks for responding. I certainly value your insight and experience. You are a guiding light on this forum. As you know, I respect Christian beliefs, as I respect other religions too. I have my "spiritual" side, and I was raised a Catholic by devote parents, so I understand the value of it, even as I choose to look at life more scientifically.

Perhaps you misunderstood my words. I would never say that hormones cause anyone to do anything. Nothing about human behaviour is so simplistic. On the other hand, everything we experience as emotions arises out of a complex interreaction of the endocrine, neurology and perception. In other words, hormones don't cause action, but they can add to mental confusion.

From what I have seen of my husband, who is a highly educated and normally a lucid man, mental confusion is a major component. It seems strange, even to me, that he seemed to be unable to see the hurt he was causing and the consequences or reasons for his actions.

You are absolutely right about the boundaries; it's an essential lesson not only for midlife, but wherever we may allow others to affect us in negative ways.

And yes, you might be right; the Japanese and Indian cultures reach great balance in life with their physical and spiritual sides. Even as Japan has developed, it maintains comparatively low crime rates too.

All I am saying is that what we call MLC is complex in its causes, frequency, and solutions. There is a great deal of evidence for this, and not all of it is in Jim Conway's book. Some will not like an analytical view of midlife, others find it helps them understand. Each looks for what they need to navigate this difficult path.

I do believe that this site has good insights, and is probably the most positive midlife forum around. The experience of people who have been through this is vital, but especially important is the idea that we can stand for our marriage.

That's why we are here.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

When people ask my why my w is going through this and not me, I respond, "My wife beat me to the punch."

[HeartsBlessing]

Hi Mermaid,

Read what you wrote again:

I'd like to add that MLC isn't one thing with one cause, but a set of symptoms which look similar in some ways but have a lot of variations in another. They seem to want to get control of their lives, find meaning in it, and say a lot of similar types of things (including ILYBINILWY).


On the other hand, some abandon their families and all responsibilities, have an A, or more than one, NC, etc; others stay at home, maintain their financial responsibilities, but seem emotionally divorced.

In some cases, hormones are to blame; in others, chronic stress; and others have serious maladjustment issues from chilhood.

I didn't take what you said out of context, NOR did I misunderstand what you were saying...maybe it wasn't so much what you said, but the WAY you said it in these lines you wrote...anyone else reading this would most likely have gotten the SAME thing I got out of it.  FWIW, I read this TWICE, if not three times, to make sure I wasn't misunderstanding something before I responded to it.

I THOUGHT it was odd that you would say something like this, but I wasn't certain...so I responded, only to find you are thinking that I misunderstood what you were saying, when, if you read this again, you see what I was seeing.

I pay strict attention to what I write, even going back and rewording some passages because I don't want someone to mistake what I mean when I write something...and I pay attention to what others write, as well.

I wasn't "getting onto you", Mermaid, I didn't mean for you to take it like that; I'm NOT your mother or your boss....but if anyone had read what you'd written the same way I read it....it would be confusing, and make people think Menopause and the MLC are the SAME events, when they are NOT.

Until I saw your response to what I'd written a few minutes ago, I actually thought that you DID think that way, based on what you'd written.

Thank you for clearing that up for me...at least I know now that you don't think that way....yet, there are people that DO think the MLC and Menopause/Andropause are one and the same.

And they are sadly mistaken.

Hormonal changes can add to the confusion of an already full-blown MLC...my husband's confusion worsened when I observed him having hot flashes to complicate an already complicated crisis...this is NOT something I would wish on anyone...and I did NOT know until then that a man really DOES have hot flashes just like a woman(due to low testosterone as compared to a woman's estrogen) until I saw my husband do it, and I looked it up on the internet to figure it out....I didn't recognize it...now if it had been a woman, I would have known right off the bat.

As it was, it took me a WEEK to figure out what was happening...then I was laughing with relief.  I DID tell him what was happening, and he couldn't accept that..oh well, I tried anyway.

I saw some increases in emotional response, such as tears; this was not a man that would cry much at all.

Where woman becomes stronger emotionally, post menopausally, a man will become more tender post andropausal...I hesitate to say weaker, because I don't consider tears and emotional feeling a weakness in anyone.

I rarely ever cry, and when I do, it's over the top, and I can't stop...it borders on hysteria, and scares my husband, because when I cry, something's really wrong. 

I found, post menopausal, that I don't get upset that much...I get more angry than really upset at times...and it's more in regards to how other people get treated, than  how I get treated.

There are times that I will read things here on the board, and I find myself getting VERY angry at what is happening to the people here..and I'm praying some VERY angry prayers, even IF I cannot say anything at that time to help....I DO pray and sometimes angrily....I KNOW I cannot do anything to fix these things, and it does no good to get angry....but just so you know, Ol' HB gets angry FOR you all. 

It's the same old story, can't control anything that goes on, and I KNOW from experience these things must happen as they are supposed to unfold....but the HURT here is strong...and that sometimes makes me angry because I can't do anything about it, except try to comfort when I can.

Anyway, I suppose I have anger issues, but I so hate to see people hurting...and I do rant from time to time about different things. 

What can I say, I'm just as crazy as anyone else, LOL!!