[lawprofessor]

In my opinion:
From my perspective and experience:

No one can help a person go through the stages more quickly but things can gum up the process.  Number one thing to gum up the process is the lbs at various points.  Yes learn about the process for your own information and understanding.  Not in the hopes of cushioning, speeding up, or controlling.  Master detachment.  If you happen to be around during rock bottom that is absolutely imperative to have as a tool.  You can have contact in a detached way.  He has to do it alone though.  He has to decide to live.  To stand up.  To look in the mirror.  To figure out a way out of the hole. You cannot climb down there to help him.  He has to want it, to pay his own price, to become an adult man.  Too much help strips him of that opportunity.  It takes away his pride in himself.  It prevents him from being an adult, a man. 

Instead, stand at the top of the hole, moving forward.  He has to choose to catch up to the light or wallow in hell.  You can't make the decision for him.  What is more basic a building block to identity than man versus child?  He begins healing there in many ways after hitting rock bottom with this basic building block.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

In my opinion:
From my perspective and experience:

No one can help a person go through the stages more quickly but things can gum up the process.  Number one thing to gum up the process is the lbs at various points.  Yes learn about the process for your own information and understanding.  Not in the hopes of cushioning, speeding up, or controlling.  Master detachment.  If you happen to be around during rock bottom that is absolutely imperative to have as a tool.  You can have contact in a detached way.  He has to do it alone though.  He has to decide to live.  To stand up.  To look in the mirror.  To figure out a way out of the hole. You cannot climb down there to help him.  He has to want it, to pay his own price, to become an adult man.  Too much help strips him of that opportunity.  It takes away his pride in himself.  It prevents him from being an adult, a man. 

Instead, stand at the top of the hole, moving forward.  He has to choose to catch up to the light or wallow in hell.  You can't make the decision for him.  What is more basic a building block to identity than man versus child?  He begins healing there in many ways after hitting rock bottom with this basic building block.

Well put.

[Puzzled]

Thanks, Speed, for posting the question of how rock bottom may manifest itself.  I've learned quite a bit from reading the answers provided so far.

I've been pondering the following question:

It sounds to me that an MLCer after hitting rock bottom assumes personal responsibility for the damage they caused and hopefully is a wiser man/woman for the remaining journey in their life.  What if this doesn't happen, i.e. they don't assume personal responsibility and make poor choices?  Have they not hit rock bottom yet and got stuck in the tunnel?  Or, are these personality traits or disorders that were not affected by MLC/rock bottom? 

One of my BILs just got married for the second time and seems to set himself and his new wife up for unhappiness.  He (now 53) married a woman about 15 years younger than him - she wants a child while he does not.  In his first marriage, he left his wife and children, claiming that his children's busy after-school schedule made him an alcoholic.  He took a job in another state and moved away (similarly to H, who moved abroad a year ago for a job).  He probably hit rock bottom (or several rock bottoms) with his former addiction but I'm not sure how this affected his MLC.

Not assuming personal responsibility and having young partners is also FIL's way of life: After his 1st marriage of 20 years ended (MIL packed a suitcase one day and left, leaving the four children aged about 11-19 behind; lots of cheating on both sides before, possibly both were going through MLC), FIL remarried (one of his OW?).  ExW2 was 17 years younger, that marriage lasted seven years (reason why it broke apart: "She was too lenient with her kids, giving them sweets before dinner."; new reason that H heard for the first time last month from FIL: "She cheated.").  H told me that FIL was very depressed after his second marriage collapsed (rock bottom?).  W3 is about 23 years younger than him and that marriage is not based on love, but on convenience (which, I guess, works for some people).

[Thunder]

Puzzled, that does happen with some MLCer's.

I knew a man who left his wife of many years (good marriage) and never came out of his crisis.  Never remarried but had one young gf after another.  Last time I saw him (70 years old) he was still drinking, still partying and had a young, drunk thing on his arm.

There is just no hope for him.  His XW died a few years back.  He'll most likely die while still in his crisis.

I don't think that is the "norm" but it does happen.   

[Treasure]

Attaching x

[Beacon]

My question is in regards to Liminality, I have seen many articles including HS that states the MLCr withdraws from everyone and so forth. I guess I am assuming my W is in this stage based on a few things I have observed however she still continues to reach out to me. Has anyone else had this experience in which the MLCr in this stage reaches out. I am not sure if there was a proverbial "Rock Bottom" hit per say but I know there have been indications that she is either reaching or in this Liminality stage. Just pondering I suppose. 

[Dji76]

Beacon, i am experiencing something similar. My xw still has om but otherwise has isolated herself. No family, few friends... She has started reaching out and opening up to me weekly. Mostly I just nod and listen, resisting the occasional urge to console or offer advice.
Curious, what is your timeline? We are 26 months post bd.

[Beacon]

I am 28 months post BD. I know it sounds silly but I can tell her state of mind by her FB posts. She hasn't posted very much recently and has been locked up in her house on her days off. She used to post all the time and stuff that would warrant positive attention. I can tell by the things that she says to me that she is not pleased with the state of her financial affairs and the life she is leading (Because she left our home). I do not reach out to her unless it's something silly like a picture of one of our dogs, I usually wait for her to initiate contact and she does quite often. So I am not sure where she is at stage wise and it doesn't matter I suppose just interested if there is still contact with LBS during Liminality.

[Loyal]

Attaching xx