[ece711]

HB
 
I am sorry to hear about your sister.  If there is physical abuse, I believe that  you get out permanently.  I use to believe if there was solid mental abuse you should get out too, but I can't say that anymore since I haven't.  We come to this website for help, we read and in the beginning we don't want to accept but in time, we do. She will accept when she is ready.

Different folks... Different strokes,  we as individuals have what we can say, "tolerance level".  We also have different beliefs...  before getting into this relationship we know what we will stand for, and what we can tolerate, and compromise in order to keep our relationships.  Through the years with the family we developed and adapted to each situation that occurs in our everyday life.  In most cases we have lost our individual selves because of our commitment to the family.  Now when this Crisis occurs we all go through a shock.  It is normal that we would immediately accept the excuses and justification that was thrown our way, but this is the time that we have to examine ourselves... change what we need to change for us... go back to basics (diet, exercise, our spiritual beliefs, and focus on the children [if you have children] ).  When you take care of yourself things will just fall into place.  You may look at it as "leaving everything in God's hand".

If you choose to STAND then stand HEALTHY.  Trying to find out when "ROCK BOTTOM" will occur is going to keep you sliding back because this question seems to be attached to some degree of expectation.  Lets face it we have heard some stories here or in some other sites where the worst things that could happen to a Human being doesn't even place a dent on an MLCer.  They too have different tolerance level.  I have read in some stories that 1) Being thrown in Jail,  2) Life threatening disease,  3) Living in Poverty, or even  4) Death of a family member or better yet  5) They themselves being seriously Injured, don't make them snap out of it.   On the other hand sometimes...  something as simple as hearing a song on a radio could make them realize what they did. 

Just keep in mind also that when they do hit "ROCK BOTTOM" it doesn't mean that the MLCer's one and only choice is to get back with us. 

You will notice that you are a WHOLE person again when you can ACCEPT, LET GO, FORGIVE and lastly GIVE and ACCEPT LOVE.

   

[Tsunami]

Thank you JustAsking!

I've probably read this 100 times, but it's always good to go back and refresh, especially for us beginners.  Takes a while to get all of this stuff sorted out in our head....just so damn confusing!!

[OldPilot]

I am hoping that someone can give further informarion on when they reach rock bottom.

After they have reached rock bottom where does the MLCer go then? Does their depression start to lighten as they enter withdrawal or is the depression just as deep? Does the LBS see any changes at all or only in retrospect?

I would love to hear any observations that you may have on this.

Thanks

I thought I would post this here on this thread what I thought,  I haven't re-read this thread before I post this so bear with me.
My wife I thought  was at rock bottom last year when she was fired from her job and was going to commit suicide.
That was January 2010

After she hit that point she made a real effort to start exercising and changing to get a new job.
Withdrawal didn't start until I believe June 2010 when she started to physically withdraw, moved out of the bedroom and again became very quiet.
Of course I got a second BD in Dec 2010 after she got a new job and probably some strength to fight the depression
Unfortunately  the depression during withdrawal doesn't seem that much different to me than what went on during replay.
Just no replay antics, and things are much calmer.
Still a lot of controlling type behaviors.
And she has still not faced her fears.
She would still rather blame me than admit that she could be wrong.
Now maybe my stages are all messed up and I don't know what I am talking about.
But that is my experience, and I think we really won't know until it is in the rear view mirror.

[justasking]

OP

Thanks for this.

As you know I think my H is hitting rock bottom but then bouncing or not as OW still there. He does seem to get renewed finance to sustain OW but as you said with your W his replay 'spending' as subsided completely except for her.

I am interested to see that even in withdrawal your W continued to blame you. I think we forget that some of these behaviours continue until and including acceptance and it's good to be reminded of that.

Maybe we put to much store on 'rock bottom' and in some cases maybe it is a bouncing up and down. Maybe the rear view mirror is best.

xx

[Buggy31]

I agree the rear view mirror is best.

I see H swirling right now as things to GRASP at are running out...and I can see the toil and confusion FROM NOT BEING HAPPY YET.

So hard to watch someone continue to spin themselves silly  ...so glad I've learned to not go with him...It's a much better place to be.

[Shantilly Lace]

I think dearheart hit rock bottom last fight, I honestly worried whether he was going to take his life or not.  He looked so ill, so dreadful hard to describe really.

In saying that he's bounced and whether he will slide again who knows.  I do know there is a change within him but what i can't say for sure.  he's still in replay.  He may have to slide again, who knows.  I know for me when i hit rock it still took a little while to seek help as my first reaction was to run again.

So who knows where it will lead.

[trusting]

I am sure there are also many cases where we may not even in hindsight be able to pinpoint the true rock bottom unless our MLCer tells us when they had hit that point. 

As JA stated, I think sometimes they kind of bounce around there for awhile, too, before they make the effort to climb back up.  It may not be an obvious one point in time.  IDK.

[growing every day]

Hi I'm GED and I'm a compulsive gambler. I say that becasue I think I can answer a little about what rock bottom means to me.  For me it was the realization that my life was no longer managable and that I had absolutely no control over what I did. Every waking moment was consumed by gambling. How I was going to get out of work early to get there. What lies I would tell on the way home so thinking that I was fooling everyone with my lies. True rock bottom was sitting in my car after leaving the casino and literally throwing up in my car. Knowing that my life had spiraled so far out of control I could see no way back. It took me a month after that moment to attend my first GA meeting. Joining that program has given me such insight in to my life. The good the bad and the ugly. It hasn't been easy, and I've had some really emotional revelations.

Now if you re read that and insert MLC instead of gambler I think it is the same thing. Am MLCer won't hit rock bottom until they are ready to look at themself and truly inderstand the situation they have gotten themself in to. Until that happens there won't be a rock botom. Just my .02.

[justasking]

I thought it would be helpful if I posted on what I am currently seeing as H reaches rock bottom. He hit the sides in Jan but bounced as he was able to find more money to keep his fantasy world going a bit longer.

About 2 weeks ago I felt a change in his demeanor. The feeling of hopelessness left him and an acceptance became evident. This was as there was no further hope of any more cash for replay or the business. He ran out of options. He is extremely depressed, not sleeping, huge black bags under his eyes and has constant headaches. During this 2 weeks his text and phone calls increased to me which is highly unusual.

His business has hit the deck and will now go into liquidation and his personal debt is also under review. There is no more money. He has spent the bloomin lot 

A week ago he rang me and we talked for 40 mins about the business and his feelings of inadequacy, responsibility etc. For the first time he didn't blame me for the mess but himself. He was crying and very emotional. Repeating things over and over again. He sounded completely broken. I validated a lot of what he said. He felt he had let everyone down. Employees, me and the children. He wasn't able to give anyone what they needed now.

I hope this gives others an insight ito where rock bottom is.

We are told that we will know when rock bottom happens and you do. They really are broken. But it is different from what I expected. He is clean shaven, tidy and even had a hair cut. But he look, sounds and is completely broken. He has now withdrawn again into his cave. His employees will be told over the next couple of weeks that he has no money to pay them and no job to go to. He did prepare me for going quiet by saying although it looked as if he was running away he just couldn't take the flack from his employees and the looks. He feels totally responsible for their position. So he has gone away without his phone so as no one can contact him. I assume OW has gone with him.

I also feel that OW feels the difference. When he was visiting the children she text 3 times and rang. She hasn't done that since the early days after BD. Although he didn't answer either the text or phone when he was with the children.

Having read liminality my H fits it like a glove. Even down to OW hanging on but the relationship changing. But MLC journey continues and other than rock bottom his living arrangements with OW remain the same. So no expectations and continue to watch and wait. He isn't out of the woods yet and still has a long way to go on his journey, though I would like to see her gone lol.

xx

[Silmarion]

want to read the rest of this thread but as it's not been written on in a while and I don't know how to bookmark it, I'm wondering how I can revisit it?  Send a message to myself perhaps?  Any comments?

Sil x