[crazyforhim]

I wish this thread was continuing as I feel my H is hitting "rock bottom". He is usually a clinger but has retreated into "hiding" from me and only communication is texting so I can't see or hear how he really feels. The alcohol abusing is getting extremely worse and the anger and depression is also worse as he has never been a "monster" during replay.
I'm not sure how to explain the behaviour other than "rock bottom" would love some insight into this a bit more.

[With Gods Help!]

Hi C i found this article relating to Rock bottom whilst its related to drugs and alcohol.........to me as this article states rock bottom can mean different things for different people ........in other words what person can with stand another may not if that makes sense xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 http://intervene.drugfree.org/2010/02/hitting-bottom-my-drug-and-alcohol-addiction-vocabulary-is-ever-changing/

[crazyforhim]

Thanks WGH...if we could just get into their minds then we would be set- or maybe not cause it could be quite scary!
Makes sense...

[HeartsBlessing]

want to read the rest of this thread but as it's not been written on in a while and I don't know how to bookmark it, I'm wondering how I can revisit it?  Send a message to myself perhaps?  Any comments?

Well, if you're using Explorer; you'll see "Favorites" on your left; it has a "star"beside it; click on it, and you'll see "Add to Favorites"..click that, you'll see a box open in front of you, then you click 'add'..and you should be able to see in your list....OR you hold CTRL and D at the same time; this will also give you a box so you can click "add" or "done"

If you're using Mozilla Firefox; click on "bookmarks" at the top of the page; when the box drops down you can click on "bookmark this page" OR hold CRTL and D at the same time to get a box that shows you bookmarking this page...then you click "done".

I hope this helps.

[HeartsBlessing]

I wish this thread was continuing as I feel my H is hitting "rock bottom". He is usually a clinger but has retreated into "hiding" from me and only communication is texting so I can't see or hear how he really feels. The alcohol abusing is getting extremely worse and the anger and depression is also worse as he has never been a "monster" during replay.
I'm not sure how to explain the behaviour other than "rock bottom" would love some insight into this a bit more.

You might want to go back and read from the first of this thread, and keep reading it until you gain more insight...sometimes you don't get true insight within the first read or two or three...sometimes it takes reading several times to get what you need out of any particular subject.

When hitting rock bottom they DO retreat deeply within themselves; but there is NOT one thing you can do to help them start their way back up; they MUST do this on their own.

They must begin to see there is truly "value" in climbing out of the place they find themselves down in; as once you hit rock bottom; the ONLY way out is UP; you can't go ANY further DOWN, unless one commits suicide; and this can get pretty dangerous as the MLC'er must begin to see themselves in a whole different light; and this often means hitting rock bottom in order to begin the climb to the top.

I didn't say "back to the top"...I simply said to the top.   They come out of rock bottom much different than they landed within.

It's like a "starting over" in a very real sense; one person goes down hitting rock bottom; a new person comes forth in various aspects ALTHOUGH they are STILL a good way from exiting the tunnel.

Things will always get worse before they get better; and their depressive state must bottom out before they are able to go on.

And it's not unusual for them to sit down there in a HUGE pity party for a time before they begin to make the climb out.

They can run harder and harder UNTIL they fall farther than they've ever fallen before.

Maybe this will help...but then he could be cycling fast and furious that may LEAD him into rock bottom, crazy for him....there is a time when they become so far gone; there is nothing left BUT to hit the bottom, and bounce hard a few times.

[justasking]

Although I recorded this earlier I will re post my H rock bottom and how I saw it. Throughout the process I was detached and never tried to 'help' as I knew he had to complete this on his own however painful it got.

He had been cycling fast from Christmas 2010 and finally slipped further down in Jan 2011 to a point that I was worried about the risk of suicide as his depression was sooo deep and he had no motivation. But he bounced again back into replay when his spending increased again for a short time.

It took another 6 months until June 2011 for him to hit the bottom and stay there.

When it finally happened he and I spoke for 40 mins. He was crying and sorry for everything he had done. He talked about how he had always tried to be there for me and his family. I validated all his feelings of being inadequate and lost. At this point the hopelessness had gone and there was an overwhelming feeling of acceptance that he had nowhere else to go now. With that came an odd peace for him as he started his journey up. During that phone call he gave me fleeting observations of his life to come and the acceptance of how and why he had got there. I did offer my help if he needed it as I didn't want him to feel completely alone.

He remained in deep depression and then withdrawal proper until now. Since June 2011 we have not had another in depth conversation like the one in June. He continues his journey to find his true self.

Please don't think that once they hit rock bottom they turn around overnight. There is a long way to go before they complete their journey. The space and time they need is still there and indeed with withdrawal the silences are long and prolonged. But each journey is different. so as HB would say follow your intuition and God's instructions. Keep out of the way of the process and let yoursand their journey continue.

xx

[crazyforhim]

Thank you so much HB and JA. Would I be the only one to see the depression? It's weird if I would be the only one to see it as I am probably the one who sees him the least but of course we know them the best. But would anyone else see it?
The reason I question it is cause normally he is a CB but the distance he has created is so noticeable that I would wonder what else it would be. Even the cycling isn't this distant when he cycles away (we run a business together) so the communication right now is almost nothing. But can they stay with OW during this phase cause I have a feeling the R is about to collapse as well- hence maybe the depression of the R ending is part of it???
This is definetely a different H that I have seen and I'm not sure how deep he is but I have also noticed as we still have a joint account that the beer consumption has also increased....guess that's part of it as well!

[justasking]

Crazy

All these changes you are seeing are part of his journey and maybe significant or not. It is only after they have moved through that it becomes obvious. Remember that MLCers constantly wear masks and you may have the only insight into how depressed he is. He will have one mask for you and one for everyone else. They are very good at compartmentalising their lives.

Your H maybe more depressed or withdrawn because his relationship with OW is under pressure OR it maybe that he nears the bottom. But the bottom is literally when they have lost everything and have nowhere to go.

My H OW has hung on throughout his trip to the bottom. But each journey is different.

xx

[Storm Rider]

I would like to add that I think one reason the concept of Rock Bottom is confusing, is that when in the second half of Replay, the impacts of the crisis start to catch up with the MLCer and they can hit the bottom, really, really hard. They may well look like they are hitting "the" bottom, in the intensity, but the processing in depth has not really begun. This really is a sliding scale.

Moving through the second part of Replay, I have seen in my sitch, and versions of others, these bounces. The first bounce down seems to be when the practical aspects (financial, impact on work etc) of the crisis catching up with them, maybe around 18 months or so. Depending on what they got up to, this first bounce can be recognised with the "why does bad luck keep happening to me, its everyone elses fault". This bounce may last many months, with dips back into hard Replay to deal with it. Poor attempts, then serious attempts are made to deal with the consequences of this.

Eventually, this becomes "I caused this, how could have I, what sort of person have I become? I see no way out of it". This is clearly still Replay, but clarity starts to come through. Again, this can take a long time, with bounces back to Hard Replay and every day life interrupting. Attempts are made to deal with this, but the big picture is still not there, so these are perhaps not successful.

The third major Replay bounce that may occur, and perhaps comes closer the the "awakening" part of Replay, is the "Oh #@$%, this really has, really impacted on others who are very close to me." To begin with, this is a statement, again, then attempts may be made to try to fix some of aspects.

These Replay bounces for some can be really, really hard bounces too. For others, the hard bounces comes after Replay.

To me, the difference between bounces towards rock bottom during Replay and afterwards, is that it is after Replay when a much wider range of solutions are attempted, and there is growing self confidence that solutions will be found, which in turn promotes more realistic solutions. This is such a grey area it really is only in hindsight that patterns start to emerge. Its like depression during the second half of Replay is more involved with assembling the puzzle peices, so that when they eventually move to Liminality/Depression/Withdrawal that they have most of the peices, the job then becomes looking at them all and sorting them out. This process perhaps causes the Rock Bottom depression event.

Much like our journey after BD really!

Of course, each journey has different elements that carry different weight, due to the individual paths, damage caused, and personalities of those involved.

[trusting]

I think that as with most things MLC, we won't be able to determine what rock bottom was until it is hindsight, and maybe quite awhile afterwards.  It is possible we may not ever know what that "rock bottom" place for the MLCer was unless they tell us at some point.  I am not sure we will be able to necessarily pinpoint it just from our observations.  I certainly thought I had seen my H hit rock bottom at the end of summer/beginning of fall based on my observations and what little he told me but now . . . who knows.