[Braveheart]

I do get where u r coming from Braveheart, however, I sense some hostility and I don't see how that is beneficial here.  There are many stories of reconciled marriages before, and after divorce.  I'm sure you know this.  When I came here, I did look for hope, but did not come away with that 'sure thing' I was hoping for.  This is a great place to gain knowledge and understanding, because that is something I, and others, were totally lacking when blindsided with this mess.

Sometimes hope is the only thing that keeps us alive during the darkest times.

As a Christian, and just being who I am in general, I have chosen the long way through this, my H has filed, I've decided to let the process stall as much as I can.  I spend much time every day praying for him.  I hope, yes, but I am realistic, he has left after all, so the odds are not in my favor.  I think everybody going through this gets that. 

I think if we introduced people to this madness by telling them that their chances of reconciliation are slim to none, that they need to move on, etc... They probably would not come here for help and support.  This place has helped me tremendously.

No, hostility, just reality. As for reconcilliations , I see little evidence of it here in terms of when MLC type behavoir is concerned. I can see maintaining hope as long as there is a reason for it, but of the many cases I've read here two and three years post BD with the X is working on OM/OW number 3, I can't see that as a positive way forward.

[Braveheart]

Have you already decided?

OP, I don't know if I've done anything that conscious but I have taken on your sage advice to detach

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

and RCR's advice to newbies in her sticky article Newbies, Read This

Detachment
It is never too early to begin the gradual process of Detaching.

and I agree with xyzcf when she says (Stayed says the same)

The LBSer can learn a great deal during this time if they allow themselves to let go of the concept that the only success is if their spouse returns.

and just two extracts from the insightful article you link to in your welcome message to newbies

Also there is a  detach link below.
http://forums.ivillage.co.uk/t5/Supporters-Carers/Developing-Detachment/td-p/970715

What is detaching
* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

What are the negative effects of not detaching
* Will be blind to the reality that the people, places or things which control you are the uncontrollables and unchangeables you need to let go of if you are to become a fully healthy, coping individual.

Being positive and optimistic are good qualities, having such qualities is what helps us survive this trauma but positivity should perhaps be tempered with some caution lest it divert us from what is healthy. Positive is not always synonymous healthy, they do not always go hand in hand.

Detaching is difficult, very, very difficult for loyal, loving, caring people to do and the people who find their way to a forum like this are loyal, loving, caring people; the sort that would take a bullet for their loved ones. For such people detaching feels contrary to everything we think, feel and believe. It feels like we are breaking that promise we made to be there in sickness and in health. Detaching is a big huge pill to swallow but it may be the best medicine for the Left Behind and for the Walk Away.

Our loved ones will survive without us, they are not going to crumple and die. It is not unkind to let them go. If, in years to come they want our help they will know where to look.

Yes, detach... it's very hard to do. The part to remember is we can let them go because we did keep our vows, they made the choice not to and we are no longer obligated to keep ours.

[calamity]

I guess I'm not yet a 'veteran'.  I am exactly 2 years today from BD [testament to my 'progress'--I've been up for hours & it never crossed my mind  ].

I'm not ready to say, he's never coming home!  2 years & I cannot say that!  I cannot face that reality.

So there is NO WAY I'm even hinting to newbies that this may be so. 

[Trustandlove]

It sounds to me like the definition of "progress" in the recent posts seems to be progress towards home, when talking about the MLCer. 

I believe that there is something in one of the articles or the blog where RCR does say that progress should mean "progress in the tunnel", rather than progress towards us and home.  I think that is where many LBS become confused. 

DGU, do you have the quote?

The idea, I believe, is to not get hung up on where they are in the tunnel or if it means that they are on their way back (yes, I thought mine was on a number of occasions...) but to keep going ourselves. 

I also remember my own behaviour many years ago, not to a husband and children but still bewildering to my family and friends, and had everyone "given up" after a year or two I wouldn't be here now.  I had to go through it, no way round. 

I'm at the point where I no longer label myself as standing for my marriage, although I haven't changed my views or values, I'm just living my life for myself and my kids.    I'm not sure when it got to that point, that's a slow progress as well.    But progress it is. 

[Dontgiveup]

I can see maintaining hope as long as there is a reason for it, but of the many cases I've read here two and three years post BD with the X is working on OM/OW number 3, I can't see that as a positive way forward.

From RCR's article Back Forward Limbo
In MLC, progress is meant to refer to movement through the MLC journey--the tunnel. But when LBSs look for progress, they are seeking not signs of forward motion, but signs of mental, emotional and relational improvement.

[Braveheart]

It sounds to me like the definition of "progress" in the recent posts seems to be progress towards home, when talking about the MLCer. 

I believe that there is something in one of the articles or the blog where RCR does say that progress should mean "progress in the tunnel", rather than progress towards us and home.  I think that is where many LBS become confused. 

DGU, do you have the quote?

The idea, I believe, is to not get hung up on where they are in the tunnel or if it means that they are on their way back (yes, I thought mine was on a number of occasions...) but to keep going ourselves. 

I also remember my own behaviour many years ago, not to a husband and children but still bewildering to my family and friends, and had everyone "given up" after a year or two I wouldn't be here now.  I had to go through it, no way round. 

I'm at the point where I no longer label myself as standing for my marriage, although I haven't changed my views or values, I'm just living my life for myself and my kids.    I'm not sure when it got to that point, that's a slow progress as well.    But progress it is.

For me, it was like I simply "Woke Up" over the space of a couple of days one year post BD. I realized very little of this had anything to do with me and that there could be no coming back from what my X put our family through.  I still believed in my vows, but realizing even biblically I was no longer obliged to keep them. My priority now is the health and welfare of my kids, my X's is playing house with the OM, acting like our 24 years and two kids together never happened.

[osb]

Maybe there's too much variability with the timeline, for us to generalize? One LBS's few moments is another's eternity. A year post BD on this forum still makes one a relative newbie. Yet Braveheart speaks sincerely of 'waking up' a year after BD, knowing that his marriage was finished; some others have spoken of tentative returns three years out, and yet others are navigating the waters of uncertainty years later. Time in this emotional universe really seems circular and non-linear. When you're done, is when you feel you're done.

Don't even know whether the target of spousal return is a realistic one to use as a gauge. My H officially never left (though he's run away for months at a time). Before his most recent departure, he told me he wants to make a go of our R when he comes home. That's lovely... but (assuming he comes back of the same mind) he's still got a long way to go before I'll believe he's actually invested in that R. Back home doesn't mean home free, by no means.

The only thing I truly want now is to see my H looking well. Departure of the space alien, whatever you want to call it. There was a huge and palpable difference between before and after - in his eyes particularly. Think I'd sleep sounder if I knew my H was in a reasonable mental health place (...yeah, that's the old fixer in me). But what happens to our relationship is separate, and is a moot point; I now feel whole with or without him. And for that last, my gratitude goes to my sisters and brothers on this forum.

[cherryblossom]

It does not really matter what the truth is, whether it's plain old infidelity, BDP or MLC the reality is they have gone and by most accounts here, they've done so in the most painful way possible. We have to emphasize to new posters the need to get out of the "left behind" mindset that keeps them on the endless loop of mining the past for answers and micromanaging their dealings with the mlc'er. The best therapy for MLC is to let them go and fix yourself, chances are very good if one does that they realize the choice is not "If" or "When" they come out of the tunnel, but that you no longer really care if they do.

I think part of the process is understanding the leaving spouse.  When you understand mlc or depression or crisis & I don't think it matters what we call it--then you can turn around & focus on yourself.  And, like any learning, we cycle back to re-visit what we have learned.

I agree Calamity - It was very important for me to put a name to it.  It needs to be diagnosed (even an amateur diagnosis - all we have right now) before we can move on.  I think that's a natural process.  It's the same with any grief or trauma and everyone processes that at a different pace and in their own way.

My feeling is that having hope is necessary - especially in those early stages.  It is all that we have and I feel that it gives us a cushion to this huge blow that we've had.

I turned up here, on this forum, a complete mess and I was searching for something different, because this didn't feel like a normal breakup that I was going through.  If I had found, on this forum, what I found outside of it - well-meaning friends and family who told me, "just leave that @$$hole" I would have carried on my search on Google for something that did resonate with how I was feeling.  It was that strong a sense and I get that many (if not all) people on here have experienced that too.

I wanted hope.  I needed hope and that's what I found here.

Is the "if" and "when" question a question of describing the MLC-er coming out of their tunnel or them wanting to reconnect?

They do all seem to come out of their tunnel.  The question is which end they emerge from - have they gone forwards or backwards?  My dad went backwards unfortunately.  But since it is possible for them to go forwards out of the tunnel, I would say that signals hope.

When the MLC-er comes out of their tunnel - moving forwards - they're going to be different and there is also reference (if memory serves me well) to the fact that we won't be able to fix our relationship and so need to accept that any future R with our recovering MLC-er is going to be new - they have changed and so have we.  There is hope but we're encouraged to see that hope in a different light - a new light, rather than the returning to the old relationship.


x

[Braveheart]

It does not really matter what the truth is, whether it's plain old infidelity, BDP or MLC the reality is they have gone and by most accounts here, they've done so in the most painful way possible. We have to emphasize to new posters the need to get out of the "left behind" mindset that keeps them on the endless loop of mining the past for answers and micromanaging their dealings with the mlc'er. The best therapy for MLC is to let them go and fix yourself, chances are very good if one does that they realize the choice is not "If" or "When" they come out of the tunnel, but that you no longer really care if they do.

I think part of the process is understanding the leaving spouse.  When you understand mlc or depression or crisis & I don't think it matters what we call it--then you can turn around & focus on yourself.  And, like any learning, we cycle back to re-visit what we have learned.

I agree Calamity - It was very important for me to put a name to it.  It needs to be diagnosed (even an amateur diagnosis - all we have right now) before we can move on.  I think that's a natural process.  It's the same with any grief or trauma and everyone processes that at a different pace and in their own way.

My feeling is that having hope is necessary - especially in those early stages.  It is all that we have and I feel that it gives us a cushion to this huge blow that we've had.

I turned up here, on this forum, a complete mess and I was searching for something different, because this didn't feel like a normal breakup that I was going through.  If I had found, on this forum, what I found outside of it - well-meaning friends and family who told me, "just leave that a$$hole" I would have carried on my search on Google for something that did resonate with how I was feeling.  It was that strong a sense and I get that many (if not all) people on here have experienced that too.

I wanted hope.  I needed hope and that's what I found here.

Is the "if" and "when" question a question of describing the MLC-er coming out of their tunnel or them wanting to reconnect?

They do all seem to come out of their tunnel.  The question is which end they emerge from - have they gone forwards or backwards?  My dad went backwards unfortunately.  But since it is possible for them to go forwards out of the tunnel, I would say that signals hope.

When the MLC-er comes out of their tunnel - moving forwards - they're going to be different and there is also reference (if memory serves me well) to the fact that we won't be able to fix our relationship and so need to accept that any future R with our recovering MLC-er is going to be new - they have changed and so have we.  There is hope but we're encouraged to see that hope in a different light - a new light, rather than the returning to the old relationship.


x

To each their own, but to my own mind the question kept coming up  "Why would I want to have any sort of relationship with this person again?" . The only reason I even considered an R early on was because I'd never felt so alone in my whole life, desperate to get back what I once had, thinking my chances of ever meeting another person like her again at my age as Nil. I determined the person with the least to lose in a relationship has all the power and that it was my own self image that was holding me back.

To get over this, as hard as it was, I went NC as much is possible when kids are involved and worked on any negative trait I had. I began to realize I deserved none of the treatment I got and I'd have to be a masochist to want her back.  MLC'ers should have to earn their way back into your life, but based on the damage most of them do, I really don't know how that would be possible. BTW I'm at 2 years BD, and in retrospect probably close to 3 years after this MLC began to manifest itself.

[Dontgiveup]

From RCR's blog I Feel Like Giving Up, Should I File For Divorce

Of course you deserve better, but please don’t fool yourself into believing that divorce is better; it’s often more permanent than MLC. But this is your life and you need to do what is best for you, for your children, your health and well-being and you need to follow your life purpose; maybe Standing is not part of that.