[Dontgiveup]

DGU, I think you may have misread one part of my post that you referenced.  The armor being stripped away IS them slipping into MLC and thus becoming overly sensitive to everything around them, especially us.

I agree.  I would call that a coping skill and not a medical condition.

I also like that you pointed out that biological factors give the most hope but I would counter that with the fact that psychological issues are often more easily identified and treated.

That's fine.  I'm neither doctor nor psychologist.....just pointing out that we are searching for treatment for one of (as Jim Conway puts it) life's processes.

But, if there are not medical factors at play why does counseling not usually work?

I see these as two different things, but both are looking for the cure.  RCR has written some insight about what could happen if the MLC is pulled out before completion.

This is my view and possibly only my view, but the best "cure" for me has been Acceptance.

[living with Hope]

When my spouse started to detach in the months leading up to bomb drop, one of the things that was noticeable was his sexual drive.  He was concerned about it enough to go visit our family Doctor.  The week or so before Bomb drop, he received news that his Testosterone was way too low.  She told him that he was the lowest she had ever had as a patient.  My husband was very upset with this news. Very. 

When I went in for a visit right after bomb drop as I was not fairing well ( as you can all imagine). She was the person who introduced Mid Life Crisis to me.  We discussed his low T and depression.  She says it goes hand in hand together.  We discussed Mid Life Crisis and its effects.  She also described it as a storm brewing in him based on a lot of factors.  Her belief was the depression and hormonal imbalance is what sets it off.  I asked if she was able to get his Testosterone stable if we would see a return of the man I loved.  She did not offer any hope.  It has been almost 20 months since then and I have seen him cycle all over the place.  He claims his T levels are all good and have been since a few months after he started taking the pills. 

[LisaLives]

With all due respect, I think you are focused on the trees and not seeing the forest.  And for that matter, you are focused on the ROTTEN trees.  There are a LOT of people who have MLTs and deal with their stuff.  We are at that age, I see distress and questioning all around me.  And there are people who have serious MLCs and don't leave their families. 

The reason we ended up here is because our spouses had MLCs and walked away from US.  There are moral, ethical, or simply thematic elements here that cannot be medicated away.  I know a man having a serious MLC but he has no interest in leaving his family.  However, his wife might leave him because she does not want to follow him to seminary.  No telling where that leaves the kids...

And the above happens A LOT.  An MLCer will project blame somewhere.  If it is on his wife and kids, a lot of us end up here.  If it is on his job or FOO, they deal differently.  Believe me, that man I know has all the markings of MLC.  He has the dead eyes and monster behavior, but it is all directed at his job and lifestyle, which is partly his FOO, and it is starting to go to his W, also, because she is not being supportive, but she is not his target.  As I look closer, I see it in more and more people changing jobs or going back to school.  I see the unhappiness and the poor pallor, and even the monster.  I see their searching, but they are not leaving their wives or families, they are messing with their careers.  I started working in adult higher ed in October, and recently have had a LOT of interaction with returning students--never have I seen more walking dead.  They hide it well, but all it takes is the question "what brought you here," and the flood gates open... 

I think there has always been an acknowledgement of hormonal changes at midlife, and even MLC, but no chemical, hormone, brain disorder, or food reaction makes a person abandon their family.  That switch only flips if there was a predisposing condition--personality disorders, FOO issues, something else.  And that is what you still have to cure--the thing that made them walk away from the people who promised to love them the most, and the people they created.  When they emerge from the fog, no matter what brought it on, will they have fixed whatever it was that caused them to walk away from you?

As I watch my friend struggle with finding his soul and saving his marriage, I see what my exH COULD have done.  He could have directed all that pain and rage at his job or his family, but he didn't, he picked me...  There is a man who offices down the hall from me in exactly the same position, he has changed careers three times in the last three years, and his wife is patiently waiting for him to find his track.  I am not sure if they'll make it either, and it would be another sad marriage lost to MLC, but in a different way. 

We see MLC as a disorder because we got the rotten apples.  The medical establishment treats pregnancy and childbirth as a disorder also.  I have ADHD, but I do not see it as a disorder, I see it as part of what makes me, me and I am successful in a lot of ways and I have attributes that make me exceptionally valuable in the right circumstances.  So what if we undergo hormonal and chemical changes at midlife, like teens do—believe me, I have SEEN those testosterone surges.  Why is that something to treat, or cure? 

What we need to cure is the fact that despite the ability to CHOOSE 100 different directions, they chose what they chose and we think it’s wrong.  The crisis is not medical, it is moral, ethical, and philosophical.  The cure is not going to come from science.  Just my HO, but I find these discussions futile.  Love and light, ll

[I believe in angels]

Hi ll, yes i agree there are moral issues at work with the decision making of the mlc er, but I also think that we need to have a properly functioning brain to be able to judge our moral, ethical issues.  IN a mlc you dont have a properly functioning brain.  I do agree that hormones play a big part especailly with stress and coping mechanisms.

All the factors mentioned are all probably playing a part.

THe problem is that though the mlc er has problems. issues, hormonal imbalances, immoral, unethical decision making brains, and everthing else there are also immoral, unethical people and things around them praying on their vulnerability and that is why I think knowledge about mlc is paramount in getting others to help or getting the mlc er to help themselves. x

[Rollercoasterider]

I don't believe FOO issues or any other childhood experiences are the CAUSES of MLC but the return to them is rather one of the symptoms.

I think of this in the context of Eriksonian Development. If a person has developmental gaps, those gaps may be a contributing factor (cause) later on when the person does not have the necessary skills that they would have acquired in those gaps. They then regress to those developmental gaps and the regression would be a symptom.
So with that process, couldn't it be both?
 

The cure is not going to come from science.  Just my HO, but I find these discussions futile.

Lisa, I think you have excellent points, but isn't there a futility in posting to a discussion you find futile? That last comment was disrespectful to those who do find such discussions helpful. Whether something is futile or not is personal and so it may be beneficial to some and not to others. People are learning that there are answers and explanations; cures is a separate matter. Explanations help many.

[LisaLives]

The discussion as a whole is not futile, only the notion that MLC can be "cured."  Sorry if that is disrespectful, I had not thought of it that way.  But I guess if disagreement is disrespect, then I do, on both counts.  MLC can't be cured, it is not a disorder, or a disease, it is a life transition, handled poorly.  Hormones contribute to EVERYTHING we do, and they can cause us to react in strange ways, but so do drugs.  Hoever, only in rare case to drugs make anyone do things they were not predisposed to doing anyway.  Even most addicts don't willingly walk away from their families, their moral compass will allow them to steal and cheat their families, but in a twisted way, they still believe they are doing their best.  And, clearly, they are not functioning well, in a lot of capacities, but most MLCers still compartmentalize exceptionally well and do function well in other capacities.   

And perhaps I reacted strongly because it struck a personal chord in me.  I had a huge argument with S14 just yesterday.  I said something about his dad not making choices to hurt S14 intentionally...  And he flipped s#$%.  He gave me a long lecture about not making excuses for him, that if he ever hears someone use the term MLC again, or tries to tell him his dad is having a "break from reality" he is going to go Columbine.  He said "that man" just got the promotion he wanted, don't tell me he doesn't know what he's doing or can't understand what he's doing.  He said "if he cared, or WANTED to care about me, he would, but he CHOOSES not to, and that's his problem, he doesn't care about ME like he cares about OW and her kids and his Fing job." 

How, my friends, do you cure that?  Love and light, ll 

[alwayshope]

And perhaps I reacted strongly because it struck a personal chord in me.  I had a huge argument with S14 just yesterday.  I said something about his dad not making choices to hurt S14 intentionally...  And he flipped s#$%.  He gave me a long lecture about not making excuses for him, that if he ever hears someone use the term MLC again, or tries to tell him his dad is having a "break from reality" he is going to go Columbine.  He said "that man" just got the promotion he wanted, don't tell me he doesn't know what he's doing or can't understand what he's doing.  He said "if he cared, or WANTED to care about me, he would, but he CHOOSES not to, and that's his problem, he doesn't care about ME like he cares about OW and her kids and his Fing job."

How sad!  I am SO SORRY to hear the pain from your son, I hate this!!!  And of course he is right, how else is your son going to see this?  His father made a choice.  My H made a choice as well - he walked.  He walked from me, and the girls.  A few texts here and there, and perhaps an hour once every couple of weeks at dinner, is not a 'relationship'.  And that is just for the youngest.  The oldest has written him off because she sees it for what it is.

I do think it is both, I think hormonal, and emotional issues bubbling up, but it is also a choice, I believe that.  Actually, I think it is quite spiritual - a demonic force at work.  In saying that I am not, no, definitely NOT absolving H for any of this!  It is a choice, but I say demonic because of the unbelievable changes, mentally, physically, etc..., very sinful choices with no regard for anybody.

[Rollercoasterider]

The discussion as a whole is not futile, only the notion that MLC can be "cured."  Sorry if that is disrespectful, I had not thought of it that way.

Oh Lisa, thanks for clearing that up. I love your contributions and was surprised to read you telling us that a discussion was futile. I don't know how others read your words, but to me it seemed you meant the entire discussion.
A few years ago in Bible study I made a comment and the pastor was rather dismissive. I then added that I had discussed this earlier that week in a different Bible Study and we'd discussed it for 15-20 minutes and he told me that we had wasted our time.
I held it for a few moments and then told him he was out of line. He said I was right and apologized, but in a condescending manner and so I didn't buy his apology. I tried to stay but ran out a few minutes later in absolute tears. His lovely wife followed and told me I was right and that he'd basically been a jerk.
It's like the there are no stupid questions axiom. And really, there are stupid questions, but most aren't and if someone gets a benefit then something is valid.

And I agree with you completely about there being no cure for MLC. Yes, I think it's a perfect storm of biochemical and sociological factors, but I also think that the transition aspect is part of life. Teen Angst is part of life too and there are biochemical factots...UM puberty+!
I love my ADHD and it sounds as though you may too. I don't see it as a disease. I think it lends me advantages and disadvantages in life. So does having a certain body type. Or complexion or...

[cherryblossom]

Really interesting - thanks for sharing Thundarr

I'm sticking myself to this thread to keep up with this discussion

[kikki]

I think what has a lot of us excited here, is that finally, the medical/scientific communities are recognising MLC, instead of sweeping it under the rug.

It means that when LBS are desperately looking for answers they will not have to suffer blank looks and shrugged shoulders or silence, from therapists and the medical profession.  Something that I found overwhelmingly scary at the time.

And with this acceptance from the medical/scientific communities, will come general knowledge for others too.

That to me seems like an enormous improvement on what most of us have experienced.