[Anjae]

They feel guilt, then they figure, in for a penny, in for a pound.  So they compound it.  Then they get angry, because we are MAKING them feel guilty.

But at a point we no longer make them feel guilty. Several of us have divorce them or barely contact them. Yet some don't seem to manage to pass from anger to remorse.

The other thing he has articulated is point 4 of that list:

"stop making me feel bad for what I did" 

The version Mr J gave me was "I don't want to have to pay for this for the rest of my life". I'm afraid if he does not end his crisis he will. He has been paying for it, even if not paying me alimony, for years. Light does not seem to get into his brain.

He did apologise after BD and after OW1 was not more. He said he knew what he had done was wrong and that he had dealt with the situation the wrong way, that OW was not the wrong approach. He said it was all his fault. Somehow he quick forgot that and carry on. 

[Trustandlove]

Yes, I've got that as well -- in moments of clarity my H has apologised, but then either got scared or something else happened , and he went right back to the anger.   

When I wrote the bit about us "making" them feel bad, I didn't mean that we were doing so, it's them that is saying that, in order to avoid looking at their own behaviour. 

That's what I meant about keeping on compounding it.    My H has also said he doesn't want to be the villain in this and all sorts of things like that.  He keeps on wanting to make it a joint decision and is angry that I refuse to do so. 

And no, my H hasn't passed from guilt to remorse, not remotely.  Seemed close at a few points, but now is far away again. 

[panda]

Yes, I've got that as well -- in moments of clarity my H has apologised, but then either got scared or something else happened , and he went right back to the anger.   

Right back after I found out about OW, H said how sorry he was and he did not know why he did it but he was infatuated and she made him feel good.  Said he realised it was a mistake and would prove it to me - promised not to go out drinking, or see OW.  He explained he had ended it and OW was very upset it was over - 3 days later, he was out again with OW and then deep in tunnel after that, no light in sight.  Not a sorry or any kind of clarity really, since.

[Searching4Answers]

Right back after I found out about OW, H said how sorry he was and he did not know why he did it but he was infatuated and she made him feel good.  Said he realised it was a mistake and would prove it to me - promised not to go out drinking, or see OW.  He explained he had ended it and OW was very upset it was over - 3 days later, he was out again with OW and then deep in tunnel after that, no light in sight.  Not a sorry or any kind of clarity really, since.

It seems like they have a moment of clarity and say 'i'm sorry' because they know that is what is expected but don't truly mean it; then they figure 'i said i'm sorry now i can go back and do what i want'. They think that the orginal 'i'm sorry' covers all past, present and future instances so they just carry on.

[Anjae]

Thanks for the clarification, Trustandlove. I think they meant it when they have a moment of clarity and say I'm sorry. It is not the I'm sorry of repent/remorse but they are really sorry.

Then the fog comes over again, or something takes them deeper again and it is back to anger and blame us.

[panda]

Tnahks for the clarification, Trusandlove. I think they meant it when they have a moment of clarity and say I'm sorry. It is not the I'm sorry of repent/remorse but they are really sorry.

Then the fog comes over again, or something takes them deeper again and it is back to anger and blame us.

So, how does the fog come on again ?  In my case it literally happened within hours!!!  Was it OW using her charm and manipulation?  Or is it something that the MLCer brings on themselves due to the infatuation a new relationship brings?

I have mentioned to H some time later about the fact he originally knew he was doing something wrong - he kind of remembers it, but then said 'Yeah, you don't want to worry about that, forget it!!' - nice, only in MLC eh?

[Anjae]

From what he know it has to do with the depression. Early on Mr J would be in and out of fog in minutes when around me. And early last here he told me first that he still had my books, a few seconds latter that, not he did not had them. We were talking on the phone, he was at his work. The fog coming and going has nothing to do with OW.

[Searching4Answers]

This seems to be a reoccuring theme with H; at BD he said that he was going to brutally selfish, not having consideration for anyone but himself. He warned at the time that this would be difficult for me and maybe I should leave. Obviously, I didn't leave and because I didn't leave he has taken this as 'it is my choice to go through the pain'. H has brought this up numerous times when I express my pain to him saying that 'i warned you'. Do you think that his 'warning me' was a way to side step responsibility for what he is doing?   

[Ready2Transform]

Do you think that his 'warning me' was a way to side step responsibility for what he is doing? 

Absolutely, but it comes from the perspective of someone whose brain is not functioning properly.  When taken out of the context of MLC, it makes no sense.

[Searching4Answers]

Do you think that his 'warning me' was a way to side step responsibility for what he is doing? 

Absolutely, but it comes from the perspective of someone whose brain is not functioning properly.  When taken out of the context of MLC, it makes no sense.

Granted, I am responsible for my own actions; so staying is on me but every time he brings this up I think to myself "how could anyone possible fathom what that warning meant". So yes I stayed but the decision was not an informed one!

H says that he doesn't want me to leave but if I need to leave that he fully supports my decision and will always help me however he can. Another side step??