[riverbirch]

GUILT = Sitting in the parking lot across the street from your house for an hour, because you can't face the spouse. Coming in as fast as you can saying' I'm not staying'. Not looking someone in the face or wanting to speak to them.

[stayed]

Sadly, guilt without remorse... JUST HOLDS A PERSON BACK! 

hugs Stayed

[riverbirch]

Yes it does.

[StillHaveHope]

I'm learning a lot from this discussion. I have two comments:

I think they meant it when they have a moment of clarity and say I'm sorry. It is not the I'm sorry of repent/remorse but they are really sorry. Then the fog comes over again, or something takes them deeper again and it is back to anger and blame us.

I remember the moments of clarity in the earlier days with my H. His eyes would clear, he would hold me and say that he can't believe he's done this, he's sorry, he loves me so much. And I remember one time I looked at him and said, "you're going to go away again aren't you?" and he replied yes. We both knew that the fog would come rolling back in and the stranger would reappear. So very very sad. In his moments of clarity our love and connection would fill the room but the fog would suck the life right out of the room. So bizarre but always validated to me that this was an illness and out of my control.

On another note re: remorse - I have become so sick of the words and no action from H. Don't tell me, show me. In the last few months I have seen the biggest change in him regarding our two young children. It's the most consistent he has ever been in their lives. He's on every detail, sometimes emailing me to remind me of what's going on at school, such and such needs this, etc. He's really learning to be a father. I would love to see that consistency in our marriage however at least he's showing what I believe to be true remorse for being an absent father for the better part of their lives. I'm hearing less and less about "poor me, I've really screwed up as a father" and much more action. Maybe someday that may just carry over to our relationship. Who knows.

[31andcounting]

StillhaveHope~ that is how it begins I believe.  Whether or not they can maintain that forward action is one thing, but just a thought....  treat your h as if he is moving forward, don't give him an option of not moving ahead. No expectations, enjoy that he is and you  ust be happy, for yourself and for your kids
(((hug)))
31andcounting

[StillHaveHope]

Thanks 31andcounting.

Our relationship has been progressing a lot over the last month and he's been asking me to do things as a family however he still has a relationship with the alienator so I've set that boundary that we can't work on us until he is good and done with that life. And until then I'm going to continue to move on with my life. I was a little cold to him for a couple of days this week (not responding to emails and being very business like) because I had a moment where I just got ticked off. I didn't say anything to him but I was just mad about all of this so I pulled away. I started overthinking everything, how I need to stop being nice because he's cake eating, etc.

But then someone responded to one of my posts where I was struggling with how to deal with him when I see him (we see each other several times a week with kids activities) and their advice and comments brought a lot of clarity. I realised that by being pleasant with him and by being "myself" I'm not being a pushover. I'm treating him like I would anyone. I'm not going to let him take advantage of me but I'm not going to change who I am (a relatively happy and kind person) because of him. I'm very content and happy being me.

The other insight was in regards to my kids. By being kind to my H in their presence I'm providing them with an environment where they can love us both freely. I don't ever want them to feel that they have to choose. So at the end of the day I walk away feeling good about me and how I acted. I'm strong enough to do that now and will continue to be a model for my children. In the face of conflict I will continue to handle myself with poise and grace.

[31andcounting]

StillHaveHope~ it is fine thin line....we must walk   You sound good I would agree with the advice.   If your busy they can wait for you to reply, but  the courteous thing to do to anyone is reply.  It is ok to get mad and it is ok let them know, but I feel it must be done in a loving way...hard as it is.  I always try to remember It makes me a better person to handle H and everyone that way.  i am trying very hard to treat people the way I would like to be treated.
Good for you
(((hugs)))
31

[jasmine snow]

after H left OW and lives in a flat alone , he sent me an email "Sorry we haven't talked, Things haven't been good recently . I'm sorry for all the pain I've caused you"
Is this guilt or remorse ?   

[kikki]

JasmineS - I just had a look at your BD. I wish I could say otherwise, but it is most likely that this is guilt. 

[stayed]

JasmineS - I just had a look at your BD. I wish I could say otherwise, but it is most likely that this is guilt. 

Worse then that JasmineS, he is actually looking for sympathy from you.  He wants YOU to reassure him, that it will all be ok.  Guilt, remorse is a long, slow process.   

hugs Stayed