[Albatross]

"Identification with the self can manifest in two ways: the assimilation of the ego by the self, in which case the ego falls under the control of the unconscious; or the assimilation of the self to the ego, where the ego becomes overaccentuated. In both cases the result is inflation, with disturbances in adaptation."

"In the first case, reality has to be protected against an archaic . . . dream-state; in the second, room must be made for the dream at the expense of the world of consciousness. In the first case, mobilization of all the virtues is indicated; in the second, the presumption of the ego can only be damped down by moral defeat."

"An inflated consciousness is always egocentric and conscious of nothing but its own existence. It is incapable of learning from the past, incapable of understanding contemporary events, and incapable of drawing right conclusions about the future. It is hypnotized by itself and therefore cannot be argued with. It inevitably dooms itself to calamities that must strike it dead. Paradoxically enough, inflation is a regression of consciousness into unconsciousness. This always happens when consciousness takes too many unconscious contents upon itself and loses the faculty of discrimination, the sine qua non of all consciousness."

Let's discuss.

[PatienceGalore]

"An inflated consciousness is always egocentric and conscious of nothing but its own existence. It is incapable of learning from the past, incapable of understanding contemporary events, and incapable of drawing right conclusions about the future". That would sum up my H at the moment....he just doesn't get it, doesn't get what he has done and the implications of his actions!

[Lanzo]

"Identification with the self can manifest in two ways: the assimilation of the ego by the self, in which case the ego falls under the control of the unconscious; or the assimilation of the self to the ego, where the ego becomes overaccentuated. In both cases the result is inflation, with disturbances in adaptation."

"In the first case, reality has to be protected against an archaic . . . dream-state; in the second, room must be made for the dream at the expense of the world of consciousness. In the first case, mobilization of all the virtues is indicated; in the second, the presumption of the ego can only be damped down by moral defeat."

"An inflated consciousness is always egocentric and conscious of nothing but its own existence. It is incapable of learning from the past, incapable of understanding contemporary events, and incapable of drawing right conclusions about the future. It is hypnotized by itself and therefore cannot be argued with. It inevitably dooms itself to calamities that must strike it dead. Paradoxically enough, inflation is a regression of consciousness into unconsciousness. This always happens when consciousness takes too many unconscious contents upon itself and loses the faculty of discrimination, the sine qua non of all consciousness."

Let's discuss.

Sorry but this will need to be dumbed down a little bit more and explained.

Lanzo

[Anjae]

The way I see it in Replay it is not so much that a merge with Shadow starts but that the Shadow rules in complete imbalance. Of course there are some periods of Replay that may not be Shadow ruled (brief ones, mostly and usually at the beginning and end of Replay) but Replay is the real of the Shadow on its splendour (and horror).

Good grief, a MLC lasts, on average, 3-7 years, with some being shorter and others longer, if one has 2-7 years/2-9 years of Liminality one may spend the whole rest of a person's adult life in MLC. Lets not forget replay lasts many, many years.

But I agree that at least 2 years are needed for a person to become something similar to their former self.

Yes, Jung knew from his own experience how things worked. He has also never returned to the man he was before and I would be careful to say he become a better, more complete man after his MLC. He starting having a mistress before and he never stop having one until he died. True, his wife seem to be fine with it, after all it has been a marriage for money and status (for him) and not being single for her, it was the early 20th century and social of the time upper class were different from our ones. It was normal, expected, even, for a man to have a mistress and no one thought a thing of it.

So, maybe we should have some caution with Jung and how he come to his theories (some of wish where not his but his wife or his Mistress's ones). 

"An inflated consciousness is always egocentric and conscious of nothing but its own existence. It is incapable of learning from the past, incapable of understanding contemporary events, and incapable of drawing right conclusions about the future. It is hypnotized by itself and therefore cannot be argued with. It inevitably dooms itself to calamities that must strike it dead. Paradoxically enough, inflation is a regression of consciousness into unconsciousness. This always happens when consciousness takes too many unconscious contents upon itself and loses the faculty of discrimination, the sine qua non of all consciousness."

Was Jung taking about himself and how he had not learned with the past, namely, only thinking of himself and never let go of a mistress?  It is a rhetoric question, he was, he used his own experience. For the record, I quite like Jung theories but I think he used some to give a free pass to his own bad behaviour.

Anjae, thats a lot of jung

So I've been reading it and didn't even really know? 

It is.  Yes. 

[justbelieve]

Just attaching to your thread

[Albatross]

Good grief, a MLC lasts, on average, 3-7 years, with some being shorter and others longer, if one has 2-7 years/2-9 years of Liminality one may spend the whole rest of a person's adult life in MLC. Lets not forget replay lasts many, many years.

But I agree that at least 2 years are needed for a person to become something similar to their former self.

As Jung said 2-7 years is Shadow - Ego merger. If Shadow merger starting in Liminality then Liminality and Rebirth should be as separate phases in sum 2 - 7 years. As whole MLC process is 2-7 years in women and 2 - 9 years in men that by simple calculation Whole MLC be much, much, much longer. So, I suppose that Shadow - Ego merger should start before Liminality. REPLAY as longest and most painful stage is pretty unknown what really happening there.

[Snowdrop]

Anjae, thats a lot of jung

So I've been reading it and didn't even really know? 

It is.   Yes.   

I find it really hard to understand , so sit in awe of you all who can.  I need to take it apart bit by bit then I get lost.  Interesting for sure.  Love it. 

[PatienceGalore]

Snowdrop, you and me both. I read it n think, ok I get that, then I think what was that again? Then I re read and go: gobbledygook!!! And then bits make sense... I love it though!

[Breakingthecycle]

It's a bit too much for my brain to cope with at the moment!

[Anjae]

REPLAY as longest and most painful stage is pretty unknown what really happening there.

2-10 years for men may be more accurate. At least my life experience and the stories on this board point to that.

Well, I don't Jung to the letter. Prefer to observe real life and what unfolds here on the board. I use him as a guide but add, or remove, according to personal experience.

Shadow is always present in Replay. Ego, or an out of control ego, is also present in Replay. What is not present in Replay is the full self. Let alone a Rebirth self. And Rebirth is still one stage short to Reintegration.

We know quite a lot of what goes on in Replay. We've seen it in our MLCer, in MLCer we know. We have listen to them, heard them say the weirds things, there is a lot written on the articles and blog posts here on the site about Replay.

We also have the testimonies of former MLCer to go by. I think we know less about what leads to Replay and what really happens after Replay.

And, of course, we do not have any neurochemical or hormonal tests to compare the alterations inside our MLCers. We do not know what parts of the brain are affected in each stage, how or how much. Nor what happens to their hormones.

Something happens, that much we know.

Snowdrop and Patience, some of us had previous knowledge of Jung. Still, I knew a lot about his ideas/theories, I knew about self, persona, shadow, ego, rebirth, reintegration but could not put the theory I had study to what was happening in reality.

Jung never uses the term Midlife Crisis. It was first used in 1965 by Elliott Jacques. Jung talks about what we know call Midlife Crisis but it is all about the transformation of the self and so on.

Then, with time, some of us start to get into neuroscience, mental health, hormones, to want to know what was going on with our MLCer during the crisis. We took to read a lot, to take courses (mainly on Coursera - no the courses are not about MLC, they deal with how alterations in the brain, hormones, genes can affect behaviour  etc.) and we start to understand more about the whole thing.

But I most tell you that all the intellectual knowledge does not change a bit what we feel or our will to reconcile or not reconcile. Feelings and intellectual knowledge some how don't go hand in hand.

Of course it helps us on the detachment from but not necessarily on the "I want them back" one.