[elray]

It is precisely the point we each have a different view point on why we stand.  To be perfectly blunt, I'm in no hurry for several simple reasons. 

First, and most importantly  this woman is not the person I loved for 20 years-- I won't walk away from someone who gave me a wonderful 20 years and 3 blessed children over a short period of time of crazy train.  She may not know it now, but this is what unconditional love looks like, and least until I see what walks out the other end of the tunnel.

Second, the family dynamics are good.  she is good to the kids.  so as long as they benefit from two parents, thats beat single parent scenarios. andmy financial position improves by waiting as years of child support is less than 60 months.

Third, I recognize I need more mirror work to be ready for the next relationship and without pain I would likely never do it.  For example, I probably need another year in the gym just to get up to a dating physique and the physical component is the fastest to progress.

Fourth--here's the kicker.  As a guy in his early 40s earning a healthy income, my options are only increasing.  Rushing out of this relationship to seach for something better would be like selling an asset under duress when u know the asset is set to increase substantially.

I understand why some view men who stand as lacking independence or confidence but that is not my story.  I don't care if things end in a D, I will not view standing as a poor decision.  I will walk away knowing I did everything in my power.

[sleepless]

Elray we have the same position on why we stand. Very well said.

[StillStanding]

I understand why some view men who stand as lacking independence or confidence but that is not my story.  I don't care if things end in a D, I will not view standing as a poor decision.  I will walk away knowing I did everything in my power.

I'm curious to know why walking away from a troubled marriage is seen as strength or confidence.

It's easy to walk away and let something fall apart. Staying committed to a troubled marriage? Working through the loss of trust, the anger, the mutual recriminations? That is hard. Dealing with the judgment of friends, family, and strangers who think you are foolish, pitiful, or being unrealistic? That is really hard.

There are a lot of philosophies and programs about what it takes to be a "real man" and so many of them seem rooted in status anxiety. Unless you behave the way they recommend and treat your relationships the way they suggest, you're somehow an inferior human being—a "beta male" or even "gamma". Which is ironic, given that some of the more aggressive ones want you to behave like other peoples' opinions don't matter to you.

Despite what we see and hear in the media and in popular culture, people work on their troubled marriages all of the time. Relationships can and do recover from infidelity and that trust can be re-established, but doing so requires the ability on our part to forgive and put it behind us. Pointing at the other person and saying "they're the problem" is how so many marriages reach a crisis point in the first place!

[in it]

Despite what we see and hear in the media and in popular culture, people work on their troubled marriages all of the time. Relationships can and do recover from infidelity and that trust can be re-established, but doing so requires the ability on our part to forgive and put it behind us. Pointing at the other person and saying "they're the problem" is how so many marriages reach a crisis point in the first place!

This is true but if the other person doesn't express genuine REMORSE for what they did and try to help the LBS understand what happened BEFORE all of this other stuff happened it never gets ANYWHERE.

You don't just PUT this BEHIND you it takes two to help repair the damage done..not one to just put it behind them.

BH
It's the worst thing I ever read on maritial advice, it puts all the blame on the husband, while the wife gets a carte blanche to act how ever she likes. Being a doormat is no way to maintain a marriage from either sex's standpoint.

I AGREE That's what this thread is all about! That's why I randomly post these kinds of things!

Elray
I will walk away knowing I did everything in my power.

That's were I'm at right now..no regrets..tried my best..it just didn't work out.

[StillStanding]

This is true but if the other person doesn't express genuine REMORSE for what they did and try to help the LBS understand what happened BEFORE all of this other stuff happened it never gets ANYWHERE.

You don't just PUT this BEHIND you it takes two to help repair the damage done..not one to just put it behind them.

You are right in that the MLCer must feel remorse for what they did in order for the relationship to be reconciled, but it is not necessary for forgiveness.

The point of forgiveness isn't to offer absolution for someone's sins against you; it's about releasing the pain and anger their actions have caused so it can't hurt you any more. You can forgive them for what they've done and never talk to them again; you don't even have to tell them that you've forgiven them!

I did a book report on the book "Forgive For Love" by Dr. Frederic Luskin; the thread can be found here:

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1965.0

[in it]

That's just what I have done.

 Forgiven him and gone on with my life without any ties to him or having him in it.

[elray]

Hmm. On this issue of forgiveness we largely agree.   I view forgiveness as a sliding scale or a process.  Pop culture promotes it as a binary event. At the bottom is release, at the top is absolution.  Absolution does require both parties at the table.  Release can be one sided.  There's a great u tube on this concept.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P1S2u-z9y0M&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DP1S2u-z9y0M

[in it]

I agree release is about the only forgiveness I have been able to practice as NO one and I do mean NO one has ever in my life asked me to forgive them except for him ( and the exmil) which will not work unless he forgives himself first!

He thought that would be the answer also as he wanted me to just deny the pain he caused and "get over it" by myself. Come to my own conclusions.. HEAL.. while he stuck he head in the sand. There is no way to heal IMHO if you live with these idiots.

The only way I can grant the last forgiveness in this video is to remove myself PHYSICALLY from the relationship which I did not want to do. He did that for me by kicking me out.

BOTH of them have been forgiven by me. And I have left them for God to deal with.

[Braveheart]

It is precisely the point we each have a different view point on why we stand.  To be perfectly blunt, I'm in no hurry for several simple reasons. 

First, and most importantly  this woman is not the person I loved for 20 years-- I won't walk away from someone who gave me a wonderful 20 years and 3 blessed children over a short period of time of crazy train.  She may not know it now, but this is what unconditional love looks like, and least until I see what walks out the other end of the tunnel.

Second, the family dynamics are good.  she is good to the kids.  so as long as they benefit from two parents, thats beat single parent scenarios. andmy financial position improves by waiting as years of child support is less than 60 months.

Third, I recognize I need more mirror work to be ready for the next relationship and without pain I would likely never do it.  For example, I probably need another year in the gym just to get up to a dating physique and the physical component is the fastest to progress.

Fourth--here's the kicker.  As a guy in his early 40s earning a healthy income, my options are only increasing.  Rushing out of this relationship to seach for something better would be like selling an asset under duress when u know the asset is set to increase substantially.

I understand why some view men who stand as lacking independence or confidence but that is not my story.  I don't care if things end in a D, I will not view standing as a poor decision.  I will walk away knowing I did everything in my power.

Good points, I gave myself a year to get my crap together, but to date ( over two years now)  haven't met anyone that does it for me. Working on yourself is the best therapy for this, hit gym, pick up a bike and cycle, canoe, kayak, ski etc..., get out to community events, volunteer. It worked wonders for me. My X going MLC is now is kind of like a bad dream

[Braveheart]

I never did the "Forgive" thing, I'll leave that up to whatever Deity runs the whole show to decide. I just got to the point I realize this person I used to be married to has proven herself unworthy of anything but indifference/Meh from me.

MLC may be some sort of hormone induced sickness, but infidelity is a choice, all kinds of planning, deceit and betrayal are required to pull it off.... nobody just happens to trip and fall onto a Pen!$ or into a V@g!n@. Anyone who thinks they can put all that behind them completely is in my opinion in denial, it's always going to be the elephant in the room.