[DaRealist]

Here's a link to the Permanence of Marriage sermon by Rev Voddie Baucham.  You'll need to download it from this link but it's free and very, very enlightening.  Whatever side of the fence you're on, please download and listen on your own time because it is worth it.  We can always debate it afterwards.

The Permanence of Marriage
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11309913170

And I'm gonna add another self explanatory sermon because we ALL need to hear this one.

Gospel Healing for Hurting Marriages
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=5409160500

[Braveheart]

The above says it all, the statistics on remarriage are dismal, that said they are far, far better than the statistics for remarriage to your former spouse. 

Do you have an actual source with this statistic for remarriage to your former spouse?  "Far, far" is not a number.

 "Lost and Found Lovers: Facts and Fantasies of Rekindled Romances" a study by Nancy Kalish, Professor emeritus at California State University in Sacramento puts it at 6% for remarriage to an X spouse.

Michele Weiner Davis, founder of the Divorce Busting Center and author of Divorce Busting and The Sex-Starved Marriage; she believes about 10 % is the correct figure, but hasn't provided a study on it to base those claims. I wouldn't give too much credence to Davis's  figure because she's in the in the business of selling the idea of marriage reconcilliations.

[Braveheart]

Marriage vows are not found anywhere in the bible,

What people think of as the traditional marriage vows are not from the Bible; they are from The Book of Common Prayer, compiled by the Anglican Church in the 16th century.

Ruth 1:16-17 is often used as a Biblical example of marriage vows:

But Ruth replied, “Don’t urge me to leave you or to turn back from you. Where you go I will go, and where you stay I will stay. Your people will be my people and your God my God. Where you die I will die, and there I will be buried. May the Lord deal with me, be it ever so severely, if even death separates you and me.”

And there are all sorts of statements in the Bible about the sanctity of marriage. Matthew 19:4-6 is the one most people think of:

"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'  and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ?  So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

And then there's a huge chunk of 1 Corinthians 7—1:11, to be exact:

Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.  But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.  The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband.  The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife.  Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.  I say this as a concession, not as a command.  I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.  Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.  But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.  To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.  But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.

And even the parts where they talk about divorce only being allowed in the case of sexual immorality, presumably including adultery (Matthew 19:9—"I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery"), it can be seen as the husband being given dispensation if he chooses to divorce, not a commandment to divorce.

You're splitting some mighty fine hairs to claim that the Bible doesn't have marriage vows in it.

No, I'm not, "the Vows" as used in Christain marriage are not in the Bible. In biblical times marriage was often a deal arranged between families, the deal sweetened with a substanial dowery to take the daughter off their hands .

What is in there makes it plain the deal is off if the wife is unfaithful, the husband could decide to keep her, or she could be stoned to death. In the case of most of our X's, they are not begging forgiveness, they've already left, some openly living with another man.

[Dontgiveup]

No, I'm not, "the Vows" as used in Christain marriage are not in the Bible. In biblical times marriage was often a deal arranged between families, the deal sweetened with a substanial dowery to take the daughter off their hands .

Don't distract from Stillstanding's post.  He CLEARLY pointed out the vows we say when getting married are not from the Bible.  But to say the Bible doesn't CLEARLY address making a vow and doesn't CLEARLY address the union of one man and one woman would simply be you spinning the "sales literature" as you call it.

What is in there makes it plain the deal is off if the wife is unfaithful, the husband could decide to keep her, or she could be stoned to death. In the case of most of our X's, they are not begging forgiveness, they've already left, some openly living with another man.

Well, of course they are not begging forgiveness if they have left.  I'll quote RCR..."duh".  Our spouses are in MLC, man.  The MLCer asking for forgiveness comes later....well, except in your case where you've made it CLEAR it ain't happening.  So who cares?

And yes, they could be stoned.  The woman at the well could have been stoned, but she wasn't, now was she?

[Albatross]

Statistics say that 80% of those who experience a turbulent transition during midlife will remain in the marriage and they themselves will make positive changes that strengthens the marriage.

[Rookie13]

Oh Dam! Im in the other 20%, lol

In my opinion, anybody whose's waiting around for 'stats', well...... Get busy living....

[honour]

Statistics say that 80% of those who experience a turbulent transition during midlife will remain in the marriage and they themselves will make positive changes that strengthens the marriage.

By the same writer who wrote 80% will stay in a marriage during a turbulent midlife transition:
"When a spouse goes into midlife crisis, you must face some painful truths. The odds are against you saving your relationship with your spouse."
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/isdivorcethesolution/a/get_a_life.htm

[Braveheart]

No, I'm not, "the Vows" as used in Christain marriage are not in the Bible. In biblical times marriage was often a deal arranged between families, the deal sweetened with a substanial dowery to take the daughter off their hands .

Don't distract from Stillstanding's post.  He CLEARLY pointed out the vows we say when getting married are not from the Bible.  But to say the Bible doesn't CLEARLY address making a vow and doesn't CLEARLY address the union of one man and one woman would simply be you spinning the "sales literature" as you call it.

What is in there makes it plain the deal is off if the wife is unfaithful, the husband could decide to keep her, or she could be stoned to death. In the case of most of our X's, they are not begging forgiveness, they've already left, some openly living with another man.

Well, of course they are not begging forgiveness if they have left.  I'll quote RCR..."duh".  Our spouses are in MLC, man.  The MLCer asking for forgiveness comes later....well, except in your case where you've made it CLEAR it ain't happening.  So who cares?

And yes, they could be stoned.  The woman at the well could have been stoned, but she wasn't, now was she?

My point is people continually bring up "Keeping their marriage vows" like it is a Christian requirement and an unconditional covenant they have to honour regardless of what their spouse has done.....it isn't, there is no such requirement. I already covered the issues of Covenants in the bible and marriage is a conditional covenant that is broken by infidelity, stoning of the unfaithful was law and a common practice that continued well after the death of Jesus. It is also in the bible that Jesus clearly states he was not there to change old testment law, of which stoning the unfaithful was one of.

[limitless]

My point is people continually bring up "Keeping their marriage vows" like it is a Christian requirement and an unconditional covenant they have to honour regardless of what their spouse has done.....it isn't, there is no such requirement. I already covered the issues of Covenants in the bible and marriage is a conditional covenant that is broken by infidelity, stoning of the unfaithful was law and a common practice that continued well after the death of Jesus. It is also in the bible that Jesus clearly states he was not there to change old testament law, of which stoning the unfaithful was one of.

Braveheart,

Please don't fall out of your seat.  I am about to agree with you.

 

I am not a religious person, although I did spend many, many, many hours during my formidable years reading and studying the Bible.

Covenant marriages exist - I don't mean to state the obvious.

I don't know of many religions that do not allow divorce in the case of infidelity.  Yes.  The covenant has been broken by the unfaithful spouse.

I think at first (and maybe later?) we all look for "reasons" to Stand.  There is so much confusion and doubt...so much pain.  Keeping ones marriage vows is a good reason, is it not?  And, yet, a marriage is between two people.  One of the parties got the h*ll out of Dodge - so that reason no longer works.

Maybe it is difficult to acknowledge that the reason one Stand's for ones marriage - is because the LBS chooses to.  That's really it is in the end.  A choice.  And when it is a choice, rather than an obligation - you are no longer an innocent bystander or a victim of circumstances.  You have a choice.  You can choose to Stand, or not.

Everyone has choice. 

Limitless

On a different note  - It is interesting to think that a thread In It started on Men's confidence and hygiene lead to this discussion.

[in it]

Please don't fall out of your seat.  I am about to agree with you.