[kikki]

I know for many of us, one of the more heartbreaking aspects of our spouse's MLC, is their 180 on being present and active parents.
Even if they are physically present on occasion, this is usually only when it suits them and not when the children need them, and while they may physically still look like the same person, most of the children are aware that the parent that they could rely on and loved, is no longer there.  An alien has taken up residence and at best they tend to get a 'buddy' adult to hang with. 

Coupled with this, is the pain of very few people understanding what is going on.

I thought it might be helpful to share a few things that we have learnt along the way, that might help both us and our children. 

'One thing that prevents a man from being a good father is he hasn't completed being a boy'

'His leaving wasn't about you, it was about him'

'Systems, structure, affirmation, acknowledgement, will put hair on a boy's chest' - Lyanla Vanzant.

Good Fathers, they do three things - they provide, they nurture, and they guide.' - Roland Warren.

Daddyless daughters have a "treasure chest of 'uns'"—feeling unwanted, unloved, unlovable, unacceptable, unimportant, unattractive, unworthy and so on. Every daddyless daughter needs to unpack her "uns" and redefine the story she believes about her life. - Lyanla Vanzant

[Phoenix]

Hi Kikki,
I was just getting ready to check in with you. 

I know for many of us, one of the more heartbreaking aspects of our spouse's MLC, is their 180 on being present and active parents.

I may have a different sitch in that I am beginning to face that H was not the father I hoped him to be even before BD. D saw it, but a part of me saw what I wanted to be true...
 

Even if they are physically present on occasion, this is usually only when it suits them and not when the children need them, and while they may physically still look like the same person, most of the children are aware that the parent that they could rely on and loved, is no longer there.  An alien has taken up residence and at best they tend to get a 'buddy' adult to hang with.

  Again, D felt (and had tried to describe this beginning around age 10--6.5 years ago and three years before BD). H was also noncommittal about having children. He didn't NOT want them, but also didn't feel compelled to have a child. In retrospect, he is still too much of a child himself emotionally to be an emotionally available father. My father was similar. They are fine with adult children, but not really into all that is entailed in being an active, accessible, unselfish father.

Coupled with this, is the pain of very few people understanding what is going on.

AGREED!

'His leaving wasn't about you, it was about him'

He blamed us.

Good Fathers, they do three things - they provide, they nurture, and they guide.' - Roland Warren.

H really only did the first.

Daddyless daughters have a "treasure chest of 'uns'"—feeling unwanted, unloved, unlovable, unacceptable, unimportant, unattractive, unworthy and so on. Every daddyless daughter needs to unpack her "uns" and redefine the story she believes about her life. - Lyanla Vanzant

I felt this way after my father vanished when I was a child, but D does not. She gets that this is her father's issue and problem. She knows this is about his shortcomings and woundings and self-medicating not about anything she isn't or should be. She never did take any of this on as being anything other than his problem.  That does not mean it does not hurt. She wanted nothing more than to have a strong healthy family and the kind of father she wants and needs, but that does not equate to feeling unloved, unimportant, unattractive, and unworthy. This does not mean she will be unscathed by all of this, but I do think that children can come through this and be healthy adults in healthy relationships with the necessary love, support and affirmations from other people and areas of their life. It's a lot of hard work, but I believe it is possible.

D has taught me a lot about children through this process and one thing she is adamant about is that biology does not equal love. Biology is the genetic relationship of parent, but is NOT the same as the emotional bonding and relationship. For her and me, love is a verb. It is not enough to just say it. One's actions must be congruent with love. Just as an adoptive parent can love their child every bit as much as a biological parent, a biological parent may not have the capacity to love their child in the way that society assumes they do or must. We have a hard time facing this reality in our culture. We want to believe there is a magic bond or connection between biology and parental love, but many of us know this is not true. Deep and lasting love--of all kinds--is not dependent on genetic connection and not guaranteed by that same connection either. 

Also, a relationship with both parents is not necessary to everyone's happiness. D has many friends forced to divide their time between parents and households and not one of them is happy about it. They do it because they have to and because they are expected to and they don't want to be judged by speaking their truth, but all of them have said they would be much happier with one consistent parent and home. Down to the person, they have told D and I that she is very lucky. They have two parents and homes and are happy half of the time. D says she feels generally happy all of the time, but knows this would not be the case if forced to deal with her father's crazy and choices, or compromise her own value system by having to act like she accepts choices and a lifestyle and "relationship" she disagrees with and finds toxic.

This may not be a popular view of this situation, but it is another side of the coin and perhaps one that can also give hope even in cases of vanishers and no reconciliation between families or even between parent and child. It may not be ideal, but if both parents cannot be a positive in a child's life, there are worse things than having one really solid unconditionally loving reliable parent.

Sending love to you and the boys, Kikki.
Phoenix

[kikki]

Hi Phoenix 

Each and every one of our MLCers are individuals, and it makes sense that even while there are similarities, there are going to be huge variables too.

I may have a different sitch in that I am beginning to face that H was not the father I hoped him to be even before BD. D saw it, but a part of me saw what I wanted to be true...

I'm sorry.  Whichever way this thing rolls, there is so much hurt.

Again, D felt (and had tried to describe this beginning around age 10--6.5 years ago and three years before BD). H was also noncommittal about having children. He didn't NOT want them, but also didn't feel compelled to have a child. In retrospect, he is still too much of a child himself emotionally to be an emotionally available father. My father was similar. They are fine with adult children, but not really into all that is entailed in being an active, accessible, unselfish father.

My H very much wanted to be a father - he was the first of the two of us to suggest we have children.  And he absolutely adored our boys.  But there was something about having a third child that he couldn't quite cope with.  He was much busier with work to provide, to be fair, but there was also a lack of the same level of bonding that occurred with our first two.
Our S15 has always been aware of it - and while my heart breaks for him, he said at 12, some months after BD 'it's okay Mum - you were always my favourite parent'.

I am so happy to hear that your D feels none of the 'uns'.  Without a doubt, testament to the absolutely amazing Mother that she has.

D has taught me a lot about children through this process and one thing she is adamant about is that biology does not equal love. Biology is the genetic relationship of parent, but is NOT the same as the emotional bonding and relationship. For her and me, love is a verb. It is not enough to just say it. One's actions must be congruent with love. Just as an adoptive parent can love their child every bit as much as a biological parent, a biological parent may not have the capacity to love their child in the way that society assumes they do or must. We have a hard time facing this reality in our culture. We want to believe there is a magic bond or connection between biology and parental love, but many of us know this is not true. Deep and lasting love--of all kinds--is not dependent on genetic connection and not guaranteed by that same connection either. 

Definitely agree.

Also, a relationship with both parents is not necessary to everyone's happiness. D has many friends forced to divide their time between parents and households and not one of them is happy about it. They do it because they have to and because they are expected to and they don't want to be judged by speaking their truth, but all of them have said they would be much happier with one consistent parent and home. Down to the person, they have told D and I that she is very lucky. They have two parents and homes and are happy half of the time. D says she feels generally happy all of the time, but knows this would not be the case if forced to deal with her father's crazy and choices, or compromise her own value system by having to act like she accepts choices and a lifestyle and "relationship" she disagrees with and finds toxic.

Depending on the child, this seems to be one of the greatest causes of harm for many children.  My sons, along with your D, expressed a very clear boundary, that they would NEVER stay overnight with their Dad, and that they were not going to have a relationship with the OW. 
Because they feel so strongly about it, I have been very grateful to be able to support that, and I am also grateful that they are in one house 100% of the time. I can't imagine the disruption and stress, living in two houses must cause them.  I know that once again, every situation is different - but that is just how our children feel. 

Because of the negative effects of this, I understand that in some parts of the world, it is the separated/divorced parents who must do the weekly change over, and not the children. The children get to stay in the family home while the parents do turn about.

This may not be a popular view of this situation, but it is another side of the coin and perhaps one that can also give hope even in cases of vanishers and no reconciliation between families or even between parent and child. It may not be ideal, but if both parents cannot be a positive in a child's life, there are worse things than having one really solid unconditionally loving reliable parent.

None of this is ideal, but that was my hope with this thread, that we share thoughts and experiences that have helped both our children and ourselves navigate these waters.

Thanks for sharing P 

[Trustandlove]

I agree about the safe home bit -- my kids as well have been adamant that this is their home; they've visited H at his apartment and stayed there (not for several years now) but it was never a home, they didn't have rooms there or anything.  I also agree completely that being shunted between parents does no one any good.  Mine finally said that they felt like toys passed back and forth between parents and the backing and forthing stopped then.

H now blames the kids, btw -- saying he used to so look forward to them coming, and that he "is there" for them but they don't want to come.....  He truly doesn't see that his actions cause damage. 

Regarding being a parent, I don't know how much my H wanted to be one, either.  He was scared at the idea of having kids, which I don't think is particularly strange, however once they were born he relaxed and was great.  Yes, were things about parenting that he didn't get stuck into.   And there really was just one issue, one I'm sure would have been dealt with if MLC hadn't struck. 

I really don't want to be going back to say that he wasn't super-parent in every way and that therefore he was always bad.  I don't think many people are super-parent, many of us have had to become that, but perhaps even we weren't super-parent before all this. 

However, I think there is another component -- his feeling "not good enough".  I think that one of the things that my H feels "not good enough" about IS his parenting, but he twists it to blame me, and somehow uses that to stay away, saying that I'm making him stay away.  Or that he is staying away because of me, making out that if it weren't for me he'd be a brilliant parent. 

He's said this in various ways during the crisis (in between saying that I'm a brilliant parent, btw...). Right now he's back to "I won't come round because of you". 

All of which again goes to show that it's about how they feel inside. 

And my D very much misses having a father, all my kids do.  They do sort of get that it's not about them, but we're still working on it.  They are VERY glad, though, that they have one stable home rather than having two houses but no home. 

[kikki]

And my D very much misses having a father, all my kids do.  They do sort of get that it's not about them, but we're still working on it.  They are VERY glad, though, that they have one stable home rather than having two houses but no home.

I guess this is where there is a silver lining in all of this - if our children feel as strongly about this as we do - we can be grateful that they are not forced into having two houses instead of one home. 

I agree with you that there are very few super parents out there.  The movies and kodak moments all tell us what life 'should' be like, but that often does not translate into reality.

It wouldn't matter how the situation played out, and what we were doing, our MLCers would find a way to whine and twist the truth to blame us. 
It's no secret to those that know me that I believe this is some form of mental illness.  That it is the altered brain chemistry that changes their perception, reality, personality and behaviours so dramatically. (Seemingly 'temporary' due to the hormonal changes).
Denial is a huge part of many mental illnesses.

Not at all fun for any of us.   

[in it]

The "Me" generation in the United States is a term referring to the Baby Boomer generation and the self-involved qualities that some people associated with it. The Baby Boomers (Americans born during the 1946 to 1964 Baby boom) were dubbed the Me generation by writer Tom Wolfe during the 1970s; Christopher Lasch was another writer who commented on the rise of a culture of narcissism among the younger generation.[1] The phrase caught on with the general public, at a time when "self-realization" and "self-fulfillment" were becoming cultural aspirations among young people, who considered them far more important than social responsibility.

Does anyone else feel that maybe this might have anything to do with the behavior involved with MLC? I do it's all about ME ME ME!!!

 I've seen some age ranges here that miss the mark of being a TRUE baby boomer.

[BB64]

Yeah that, the free-love claptrap, the medias and the false appearance of youth and perfection, technology and faster and faster cars, faster living....

[in it]

Well I can't help but think that..there's WAY TOO many of us dealing with this at the same time and it comes from just discontent and a lack of any belief that something else that's BIGGER than us is in control.

The NEXT level is ALWAYS where you'll finally find the happiness. After the next car, raise, shoes, diamond, baby, ...and in the meantime?

EVERYBODY IN THIS CRISIS IS MISSING IT

[OldPilot]

Great stuff

I am sure the opposite is valid for mothers too!

[Trustandlove]

sorry, OP, perhaps I'm being a bit thick here -- what do you mean by 'the opposite is valid for mothers'?  Or do you just mean that what we say about fathers applies to absent mothers as well?