[Foxberry]

Adultery to be forgiven first has to be recognised by the person who's done it!  My H has never said it was a mistake, and he regrets it.....

Back when we were together for a couple of weeks in April/May he admitted it was wrong what he did...but never actually told me "what" was wrong....the fact that he'd had an affair, had sex, betrayed me, lied to me, or presently living with a married woman!!!!  In my eyes ALL these things are wrong...

The fact that they are wrong, doesn't mean one can't forgive the Adulterer...but you have to have somewhere to start from? No way could I take H back if he didn't prove to me that he was sorry for everything he'd done and talk about things...because it was the lack of communication between us that led to this disastrous path in the first place - so to move on with any kind of relationship trust has to be found again - as none of us are saints....

One of the Worst lines in movie history is the line "Love means never having to say you're sorry" from Love Story, personally I think that is rubbish!  To validate that you have hurt someone so deeply that you admit you are wrong is a wonderful thing otherwise someone in the relationship is being a door mat....

Just my opinion....that's all....

Love and hugs
Fox xxxx

[justasking]

IMO it is possible to forgive the adulterer for their bad decisions. If we don't then we stand a chance of letting that person impact on the rest of our lives as we get more and more angry and bitterness becomes a way of life.

Waiting for the adulterer in MLC to admit what they are doing is wrong may take a long long time. Currently in their eyes they don't see what is wrong. So this holds you up on the way to forgive.

Forgiveness is hard. But it can be done. I think the longer we are standing as LBS the easier it becomes. It is part of our journey to something better in the future. Part of us realising that we are not reliant on someone else to make us happy.

xx

[TrustingMyHP]

Honour, those are some of the most sensible words I've read yet about the MLCer and adultery.  Thank you!

I too HATE the word "affair," especially when the intense relationship of the MLC/OW "situation" is being discussed.  Affair connotes Cary Grant and Deborah Kerr on an ocean liner having dinner together and looking soulfully into each other's eyes.  It's romantic.

They is nothing romantic about adultery.  If you've never done so, I'd highly recommend to everyone on this board you read Tolstoy's masterpiece Anna Karenena.  He tells the whole story of the cost of adultery and spares nothing.  Brilliant book.

From time to time I will use the word adultery when talking with friends or even my daughter about my H's current behavior.  I refer to OW as my H's "adulterous partner" or "partner in adultery."   I call their situation an "adulterous relationship."  Even though I know my friends and D mightily disapprove of what my H's doing, I see them flinch when I use that word. 

Too bad.  It's the TRUTH.

TMHP

M  58
H  60
D  22
M  38 yrs.
BD  Jan. '11
H living with OW

[Foxberry]

Absolutely TMHP...  why is one of the reasons for Divorce "Adultery" because it is a broken contract within Law as well as in the sight of God.

I agree with JA of course it can be forgiven but with an awful lot of work from both sides.  Trust? now that's a whole different ball of wax! 

Foxy xxx

[Dontgiveup]

Foxberry

"Adultery to be forgiven first has to be recognised by the person who's done it!  My H has never said it was a mistake, and he regrets it....."

I don't know that there are any prerequisites to forgiveness.  Your husband is not likely to talk about regrets so soon.

"because it was the lack of communication between us that led to this disastrous path in the first place"

Your statement is a little vague, and perhaps this isn't what you meant.....but lack of communication does not cause MLC.

[Foxberry]

DGU,

That was my point when my H came back at Easter he would only say what he'd done was wrong not that he regretted anything or it was a mistake and certainly not that he loved me...he would only tell me the things that were annoying him about OW....no reason to come back to me for sure.  I agree with you obviously still in MLC and not ready to face what he'd done...although he did say things like "I thought we were going to talk about the future?" obviously I needed to deal with what had happened before I could move on... and "we need to deal with things in bite sized chunks" not quite sure what he meant by that, obviously deal with things at his pace not mine....

As far as the communication was concerned...that it what he said to me at BD and has continued to say over the past 12 months both in letters to me and verbally - that "if we had communicated better and he had told me the problems this would never have happened".....    MLC is still very difficult for me to grasp as far as things he said to me.....what was MLC and what wasn't if you know what I mean?  There had to be elements of truth in everything he said...

Love Fox
xxx

[LifeGoesOn]

We MUST forgive in order to move forward. With an MLCer, in an ongoing affair, this is soooo difficult. It requires constant effort.
Even after the adultery ends, and they want to come home, the LBSer will not see much true remose for awhile. My H has acknowledged that he has treated me unforgivably, that his treatment of me is inexcusable. BUT, there is no remorse. he is justified. He is a victim of circumstance. Can I forgive that? Yes. Will I accept more of  that back into my life without seeing remorse/regret? No. Trust IS a whole different issue, and not needed for me to move forward in MY life.

Some specifics even have to be set aside for later, much later. For now, beating them (and you) over the head with the destruction they are causing will only thicken the distortion of the MLC goggles (kinda like beer goggles I think , it will not awaken them.  Guilt is a glue which the MLCer uses to cement them in Replay. They are victims and do not accept guilt, avoiding and rejecting it in all kinds of distorted thinking patterns.  It puddles around their feet. Do not ask for acknowledgement of their destructive behavior now. Accept they will see it someday and you will have your due. For today, work forward. Otherwise, you will stay stuck in the mire with them. You can forgive without being asked, without acknowledegement. Forgive, they know not what they do. Forgive, it is FOR YOU. If/when the MLCer returns to the marriage, you can then hash out all the details, look for remorse, hear the words "Please forgive me", for this is trust-building, and not necessary for forgiveness.

My most difficult thing to forgive has been my H's treatment of our kids. I cannot imagine HOW he could possibly, neglect them, abuse them, and see himself a victim of the children. I have been dealing with his negativity directed at our kids long before BD. They have borne the brunt of Monster.

For example, The summer of '05, H stayed home from our beach vacation. When we returned, he had set up the den as an office for the kids with new laptops printers, desk organizers, etc. It was awesome. As the summer went on, H would yell and  stomp about the amount of time the kids were spending on the computers. he thought they should go play and explore in the desert like he did as a kid...in the 120 degree sun .
This was the beginning of his irrational expectations, and our "communication issues". Most MLCers will cite a "lack of communication" as the issue that broke the marriage. But how can we accept that when they are so irrational.
 Over the next 3 years, leading up to BD, his abuse of the kids escalated. He felt justified in Yelling and bullying them all the time. I was dancing around, stepping in between them, accepting blame for being a bad mom, and so on. This "dance" culminated in DS who was 12 at the time, called 911 after a fight with h. They were home alone on a Friday nite, H was raging at DS to get off the computer, picking him up and tossing him across the room, riping his shirt, and scaring the bejeezus out of him. H still blames DS for trying to have him arrested and has "trust issues" with him.
Yes H, 'we' have communication issues!

I did evaluate my own communication style (an ongoing activity of mine as i work on my self!) Two books that are helping me are "The new rules of marriage" by Terry Real, and "Hold me tight" by Sue Johnson.

Forgiving and getting past your anger is an ongoing effort. Otherwise you will be stuck right along side of your MLCer.

[Foxberry]

Excellent post LGO and thank you - I agree.

My main problem also is the feelings of acute anger at H for his treatment of our Son...he is 28 not a child I know...but he feels rejected all because he was there for his Mother....His Father actually told him to "look after me"  he has done JUST THAT and H has held it against him.... He is meeting his father for the very first time since 29 April.... so we shall see what happens....I cannot believe that he will accept any blame at all....his last awful email (unless dictated by others) shows that he is still deep in Replay and lashing out with blame and guilt everywhere apart from himself!  Even my fault he had to leave his last job as I made him staying intolerable because his Manager called me and I spoke to him? he can't see the reason his Manager called me in the first place was his irrational behaviour 

Love and hugs
Foxy xxx

[justasking]

Fox

I cannot believe that he will accept any blame at all

No H won't. He is deep in replay and still using you and S to justify where he is. It is all about what is done to him and not about what he needs to look at inside. He is a long way yet from turning from blaming you. Please don't expect that at this time as you set yourself up to fail.

lashing out with blame and guilt everywhere apart from himself! 

Reread RCR article on replay and the running behaviours. This ^ ^ is typical MLC behaviour and shouldn't surprise you any more. There will be more of this yet. He is deep in replay and very happy!!!!!    Eventually he will wake up. But move forward with your life and stop watching him. He is holding you back and in turn you are potentially holding him back.

As OP says you can't shorten the journey but you can make it longer.

xx

[With Gods Help!]

I have read this before but just wanted to post it for those who haven’t xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Why Husbands Allow The Other Woman Or Mistress To Have A Hold On Them While They Are Cheating Or Having An Affaiir

Many wives worry that their husbands are having an epic love affair with their soul mate and therefore, the wife just can not compete. Well, the husband and the other woman can certainly feel that this is true at the time. And the reasons for this are pretty straightforward. Believing that they have something so special that this justifies lying and cheating is in their best interest. They have to build the relationship up to the highest heights in order to justify it. Because if you risked your family and acted downright foolish over a relationship or a person that was nothing special, then what does that say about you?

So you see, he needs to believe that she is worth every risk, every embarrassing act or behavior, and every compromise, especially at first. But that doesn't mean that he is always going to feel this way or that he will never come to his senses. Over time, sometimes even the most stubborn man can't deny the obvious. Often the other woman will show her true colors or her true motivations and as the freshness wears off of the relationship, which is when the jig is up.

Understand That The Power That She Thinks She Has Over Him Will Often Fade With Time: I get how hurtful and frustrating it is to watch while your husband makes a mockery of your marriage. He's often acting like a 17 year old teenager who is getting his first taste of his sexuality. Even if every one is laughing behind his back, he just can't see it at the time.

The thing is, she might be offering an intense physical relationship, a supposed emotional connection, or something exciting and new in the early days, but she can't possibly keep this up. Time will make this relationship familiar in the end. That is inevitable. And when the relationship becomes familiar and when she starts to make demands, that is usually when her hold over him will begin to slip just a little. He no longer feels so young, carefree, or alive when he is with her and so he has no incentive to continue to risk everything.

How you handle the situation when her hold over him ends is up to you. Perhaps you might decide that she can have him. Or perhaps you are still very invested in your marriage or your family and are just glad that he comes to his senses when he eventually does.

Either way, you can often take comfort in the fact that it's often not a question of if this hold over your husband will fade, it's a question of when. That's not to say that there are no couples who start their relationship as cheaters who end up with a lasting or real relationship. Some go on to marry the "other woman" but this group is very rare and in the minority. Most of the time, her hold over him ends as soon as the newness or the forbidden nature of the relationship ends. This is usually also around the time that she starts to let down her guard a little bit and begins to make demands or backs off of the "no strings attached" stance that many other women attempt in the beginning.

So to answer the questions posed, there's not always an easy explanation for the hold she has over him. It often has to do with the promise of a forbidden and intense relationship which makes him feel younger, stronger, and more desirable. Unfortunately for him, these things are fleeting and are destined to fade and fail with time. I know that this may not make you feel better right this second, but I'll bet it will make you feel a little better when it actually does happen and you feel quite vindicated in the end.

Source: http://ezinearticles.com/?Why-Does-My-Husbands-Mistress-Have-So-Much-Power-Over-Him?&id=6531521