[stayed]

With Gods Help!
We are both very aware of how fortunate we are!  When you think of all the possibilities of how these sorts of situations can turn out, it is hard not to feel blessed. 

Quite often when I respond to threads, you people get a twofour, as I often read comments and questions directly from the threads.  Funny, he wouldn't dream of coming in here and actually responding personally but whenever I have asked him about ANYTHING that an MLC goes through, he willingly tells me, if he knows.

Actual comments etc. he often doesn't recall the exact words but there are not too darn many of the actual situations that he does not remember.  With shame mind you, and groans often when asked to recall them, but he surely does remember them. 

I sometimes am confused when it is said that an MLCer does not remember.  It has been my experience, that they do not want to remember.  I get far more honest answers from husband now, then I did when we first reconciled, or even a year ago. 

My h truly understands the need for us to know.  He has watched it heal me.  He has watched how working with you people has helped me to understand better what actually happend to us during our trial.  At first he feared this would simply open up old wounds... but he has seen that in fact, it heals wounds when it is better understood.

hugs Stayed

[eternity]

Stayed, I have read this with a lot of interest.
I would like that somebody of you analysed my situation
H. lives with OW and runs his restaurant with OW. As we are still married we have a mutual responsibility for the business. I continued doing the bookkeeping because no one else can handle it (or he needs to pay a bookkeeper  which he probably can't afford) + by doing  this bookkeeping I could see if finances  were OK and that he would not drag me into something worse. So I decided that as long as there is no official D I would handle the bookkeeping. (We went to see a notary who will draw up an act and normal process to follow is D proceedings)

I read about detaching and letting go and various types of contact. I went very dark in my contact. No contact is almost impossible because of finances and our S17.
But our contact is very friendly, I learned not to ask questions anymore.
I am afraid now that be being so friendly is not “letting go” enough. He is used to it that I behave like this.  We mean each other no harm despite everything that happens now. He will not do anything that deliberately hurts me (besides having an affair LOL). But he started proceedings so  for him this is not having an affair anymore, the whole process takes a couple of months, so in his mind  this is a transition period. If this is no longer betrayal, he does not need to feel guilty?!

Sometimes he contacts me by phone, email or text and I respond in a friendly way and without pressure. I sometimes wait a few hours before I reply, but I always do.
If something about the business needs to be done that I usually did, he simply forwards I to me. He is not even thinking I will not take care of it.
I am afraid that being “friendly” and “making no fuss” is enabling him to stay in his “movie” world.

Further,  since he is not living with me anymore, it is almost impossible for him to notice if I live my own life. I can go out every day without him noticing. So what is the difference,  staying home being sad or go out and do fun things, he will not notice!
I know the difference will be for me; I will start feeling better about myself
But still how will H notice
Do I need to stop doing these bookkeeping for him. Do I ask to be paid
For it and turn this in a business agreement?
I am not sure what else I can don accept for  no contact at all, and this is not possible

X

[xyzcf]

Dear Stayed, reading your post was like reliving my life. Once he was promoted to plant manager, perhaps 1998 or so, things changed. I was also working full time but he worked longer hours, had more travel and evenings out for work. I took care of most of the stuff  (we did get a cleaning service in) and he was good actually about helping out when he was home...but the routine paying bills, taking our daughter to school, helping with her homework, any appointments, most of her activities, taking care of other family stuff, buying gifts, sending cards, groceries, making food...I used to wonder somehow...when did I ever agree to all this?

In the first 20 years of marriage, things were much more evenly distributed.

And of course I moved, each time he was promoted, giving up my job, my friends, my family and then ultimately leaving our daughter behind.

I was so proud of him, happy and feeling so fortunate to have the lifestyle that we did..but I missed him. I wasn't really important..he did a great job of spoiling me in sweet ways..I truly thought we enjoyed the things that we did together and that he just didn't have much time..other than for work.

I did pursue other interests..never felt like I couldn't do things that I enjoyed..he was always supportive of things that I would go out and do.

Perhaps this is why I am having so much trouble adjusting to being alone...he was such a huge part of my life...people would ask me why I would move whenever he wanted to have that next "experience" and I just felt, I'm his wife..as a nurse I can never make the money that he did and so early on, I choose to follow him...after all..I could always get a job as a nurse.

He never really understood how difficult it was for me..used to tell me what wonderful experiences we had and how I had benefited from each move.

I think he was right when he said his unhappiness went back to 2003 when we left Canada..because I had to leave our daughter behind and I was not a happy camper. I was brought up with family Sunday dinners..the first year I was not with her for Mother's day killed me and I vowed that would never happen again.

He did not understand..thought our daughter was an "adult" and was fine on her own...he is a very selfish person....he was so close to his mom and dad that I don't get how very little he cares about having time with his daughter.

I was duped!

[stayed]

I think he was right when he said his unhappiness went back to 2003 when we left Canada..because I had to leave our daughter behind and I was not a happy camper. I was brought up with family Sunday dinners..the first year I was not with her for Mother's day killed me and I vowed that would never happen again.

Goodness Xyzcf, no wonder we have an affinity.... we lived parallel lives!  hehehe.   I seriously considered not moving here to Luxembourg... as the idea of leaving my children behind, just seemed SO WRONG!  I had spend far more time with my kids then I ever had my husband.... I was scared.  As it turned out, I had reason to be, within 3 years, he was shacked up with OW.  I was home caring for sick/dying mother...    ... crazy life... we have lived. 

Your h's words sound identical to my h's word...    wow, we were just "old fashioned" wives hun.  We thought our duty was to our husbands.  What can I say.... 

hugs... Stayed...

[Battlefield]

Thanks For Sharing!!!

[xyzcf]

What made it even worse for me was our move to Hong Kong where I was really unhappy and  that interfered with his grandiose plans. My mom was also very ill and passed away last Nov. The climate was not agreeable, the pollution and the throngs of people drove me crazy and he worked so much and was tired the rest of the time.

But what he didn't get was the emotional connection for me with my Dad having been a prisoner of war in Hong Kong...as I explored the battlefields, the bunkers, the Canadian gravesite and worked at a soup kitchen on the exact spot where my father was interned..I wrote something that was published in their newsletter just before  I returned to Canada for a wedding, just before BD and I had him read it and he looked at me and said..you really hate it here don't you? And I tried to explain...that I was looking at it from my eyes..how difficult it was for me to adjust with all the wealth that we had..oh how hard it must have been for my dad.

I think that article made him so mad because he wanted to stay and live the life of being an "emperor" and he knew that I would stay but that I truly did not want to.

I couldn't change what happened..and a marriage has to take into consideration ... after all these years was I not allowed to feel something and want a life that I could accept ...living in Colorado was hard enough being away from our daughter and family..what gave him the right to have all the candy?

[stayed]

I couldn't change what happened..and a marriage has to take into consideration ... after all these years was I not allowed to feel something and want a life that I could accept ...living in Colorado was hard enough being away from our daughter and family..what gave him the right to have all the candy?

No right at all Xyzcf... no right why he should have all the candy.  You see that would have been the same attitude my OLD HUSBAND would have taken.  Somehow, it would have been like I was RUINING everything.  Everything had become about HIM... what he wanted, what he needed... how good he was... lalala... I could hardly stand him opening his mouth.  I honestly, wanted to jam my foot down it.

You know honey, I can't believe I lived with it as long as I did. That's why in so many ways, I am glad our marriage BLEW UP.  I think if it had remained as it was, I would have died hating him.

hugs Stayed...

[Trustandlove]

I do think about the "blowing up" part.   About 9 months after BD -- this time of year, actually, when we first started having some honest conversations (yes, this is a cycle....) I even said that perhaps this HAD to happen.  He visibly relaxed then, we started talking more.  (not going into the next bit right now...)

This discussion also reminded me about how I was feeling in the run up to BD....  I didn't move around for my H the way you, stayed and xyzcf, did, but I did uproot my whole life to come here to marry him, and I gave up my career to look after the children, deal with all the special needs, etc.  I remember saying that just because I did all that gladly didn't mean that it wasn't hard. 

I also remember saying, literally a week or two before BD, that I just wanted back some of the support that I had been giving all this time. 

But of course it was me just silently doing it all (OK, maybe not totally silently all the time), expecting to be appreciated, expecting that it would just magically come back to me when I needed it.   Somewhere along the line I had forgotten how to negotiate for what I needed. 

I've been married 20 years now, so it's not quite the same timeline as the two of you -- but the principle is the same.  There was a lot of give and take for a long time, then it gradually became all one-sided.....  and I developed resentments as well. 

Tuesday when we talked I reminded him that the 'not talking' was what got us into this mess, (he agreed) and that it couldn't continue. 

It does seem that at this time of year we hit a spell of 'talking honestly'; it's just the follow-up which so far has suffered.  I think this year may be different because my expectations really are nil now.  Every time before I was doing it with the expectation that "this time he'll turn back", or something; this time I don't think that at all.  I'm seeing more clearly.  I hope to continue to have this inner peace. 

Although, I do find that sometimes even on this forum I write what I think will be the "right thing"....  funny, that.  It does all make me think.

Gotta run...

[stayed]

Ahhhhhhhhh T&L you make me smile... (((((((hugs)))))))

It's just one big "crap shoot"!  The truth is honey, nobody knows what will work or won't work.  People just go crazy.  Then they simply don't know how to go back.  They are more afraid of facing the music then they are of going forward, repeating the same mistakes over and over and over. 

I think the new you, is obvious.  You may be saying a bit of what you think you should be saying but I actually do get the feeling that you have finally accepted.  Probably the most you SHOULD hope for, is somehow helping to steer him towards a greater awareness of his children.  He has actually been a pretty good, at least compared to most who walk out on their families. 

That being said, he still leaves a lot up to you.  He takes liberties in allowing himself to ENJOY a single life, while truly depriving you of the same opportunity.  Oh, I know, you have no wish to date etc., which is a damn good thing because if both of you were behaving like you were "single" those children of yours would be in a very bad way by now. 

Whatever results come out of your latest talk, I hope it allows you the freedom to speak your mind, when you feel you must.  Certainly, not about what he is doing with his life, but when it comes to the children and him being a father, instead of a "great uncle", a very special uncle, then you have to open up and let him have it. 

If he doesn't like it and can't see where you are coming from, then he will always only be a special uncle to his own children.  He will have to live with it.  As you have certainly done your best to keep your family together.  Nobody could do more.

hugs... Stayed

[eternity]

XYZCF, your life could be mine here, the way you put it, the resemblance is sometimes frightening
I did everything and more but I got spoiled as well in a very sweet way.  These are your words but they apply to my life as well.
Also in my case due to H’s restaurant, the time left was very limited.
We had 1 day off together. Apart from the restaurant I still kept my job  (4 days/week). All the other days were spent on the restaurant +cleaning restaurant+ bookkeeping & family stuff
My mother took care of the cleaning of our home and the laundry.
The last months before BD I to felt that there wasn't much else in life than work. Result was that our day off was an obligation to have quality time and the result was
It was more a disappointment. I did not get out of that day what I wanted.
Also in my case H. could not see how difficult all these practical things were.
They went on and on without seeing the end of it. He did not even see them (ADHD)
He really did not understand. He slept out while I was on my 1 day off  (H had 2 days off) busy with groceries etc.
The ADHD issue is another reason why I did so much jobs myself.

I know now that If I had to start all over again I would organize this restaurant better; meaning I would hire third parties do help out in order to NOT  do it all myself.
Another thing that I immediately stopped is the help of my parents. This was meant well but was to much interference.

I am not sure whether this is coincidence or not, but I recognize some common factors in all of our LBS stories
We are fixers
We are very independent
We take care of the household stuff on our own (with or without appreciation of H)
We set our selves aside for the sake of our H and family, but we were proud of them

Typically I guess, OW in my case is totally dependant; emotionally & financially.