[Mermaid]

I've found dozens of references to passive aggressive spouses but not a dedicated thread, so this is for all those LBS who find themselves in this position.

As passive aggressive people have fear of intimacy and direct conflict, it could be that this personality disorder is one factor leading to MLC.

Passive aggressive behaviour is the covert aggressive response to the world, without being directly aggressive or violent. It's characterised by the avoidance do dealing directly with intimate issues, and especially the inability to deal with anger in a healthy way. They withdraw, avoid, blame, obstruct, but never accept the blame for themselves. Their difficulty is relationships, not other areas of their lives, so they may or may not be successful professionally.

P.A. Behaviour is not an all or nothing thing. We can all show elements of this at times. But people who are really PA  consistently behave in this way.

It's a dance... If you have a PA partner, your behaviour plays a part too. If they provoke you and you get angry, this is a reinforcement of their inner beliefs of the danger of confrontation/ relationships, so they withdraw. If you are anything like me, you get madder at the unfairness of their behaviour.

The PAs partner has usually had experience of this elsewhere (in my case my dad), so the dance is set up to continue.

We cannot change our partner. We can't make them reasonable, fair, cooperative, etc. but we can change our own behaviour. It's what I am going to try to do.

To start with, I leave you three links. One is a psychologist's point of view:

http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/counsellor-articles/what-is-passive-aggressive-behaviour

Then a blog:
http://passiveaggressiveabuse.wordpress.com/passive-aggressive-behavior/

The other is the experience of a woman who decided that she didn't believe in divorce, so she learnt how to cope:

http://voices.yahoo.com/how-find-joy-staying-married-passive-aggressive-6241172.html

[The lighthouse]

Thank you Mermaid for posting this.  I can see my MLC'er here.  I always said he was passive aggressive, but I didn't realize just how much. He ticks almost all of the boxes.  I will follow this thread with great  interest.

[superdog]

Hey mermaid, thanks for posting these and also of starting this thread which I am sure will hit quite a few of us who are dealing with this type of individual.

One question that never seems to get answered is whether these actions are conscious of unconscious. The reason I would like to know this is because my FIL, my H and my son all have these traits which leads me to think that there are genetic factors involved, not just experiences.

I still carry a resentment for the way I have been treated by my h All these years, I really do. My life could have been so much different had I not got involved with someone who was PA. I know why I did and it was familiar form my mother.

My h fits all of the PA behaviours and traits it's amazing to read all of this and pick out your own life in it.

My observation regarding the improved behaviour towards the object of the PA is that it is nothing more than a manipulation that serves them, not the other person. I believe that they understand what a shameful way they have behaved and must claw back the good guy bit in order not to feel the pain of that shame.

I also believe that they do not have the capacity to love in a meaningful way, because it will always be about them not you. It therefore renders a huge suspicion over the "loving" way they behave on occasion As you begin to think about why they do this. Is it merely to manipulate you to continuing the dance they need to survive or is it genuine affection, which we know they are not actually fully capable of showing you.

Yes we can work on our reactions, but we must never forget that we have a right to how we feel. Being angry is a natural response and we have a right to show when we are angry, in healthy way. That where we need to work, to show it in a healthy way, not to suppress it and deny we feel it. The stonewalling the sulking, the ignoring and blaming are what strips us of our rights and that is not acceptable.

Resentment is a powerful negative emotion, I know because I feel it towards my spouse on many occasions. That emotion is a direct contradiction from love in my eyes. And I ask myself if my h has been harbouring such resentment towards me for 23 years then how could he ever have truly loved me. I cannot reconcile the two.

My own values are compromised when I think about what a PA does to me. I live my life by the fairness principle and even if someone may not like it, if it is fair and has taken into account all aspects and options then it is fair, that also means that I accept that I cannot have what I want all the time.  I have not been treated fairly at all by my spouse and that irks me greatly.

I am not saying that we dismiss those with personality disorders as unworkable human beings or too difficult to handle, but what I am saying is that we should not let that dictate how we live out lives or have it compromise our own values and beliefs. Compromising those for prolonged period will eat away at your soul and yield unhappiness for us. We have one life.

Sd
X

[The lighthouse]

Oh my goodness Superdog!  So beautifully expressed and some food for thought for me  .

[OldPilot]

I know why I did and it was familiar form my mother.

So what does that say about your father?

We pick our partners by taking the best traits of our opposite sex parents and mirroring those traits, then taking the opposite of the worse traits of that same parent.

So when you picked your husband you used what you learned about your father to come up with that choice.
So yes your mother had a position in it too but so did your father.
Dont feel bad about this because it is natural biology that most of us follow.

It is quite interesting to follow, and trying to figure out what the next logical step is for us to FIX ourselves.

[superdog]

Yes OP that's exactly right what did it say about my father. He has spent a frustrated life And his frustrations came out towards me and my sister and he self mediated with alcohol. He lacked affection and attention, Shew a selfish and childish  I saw the lot unfold. He did not deal with her well at all. They celebrate 50years together this year, but in reality??

I make the points about PA because I think that we all need to have a good long think about spending time with someone who does not bring out the best in us, but the stress in us. That is not healthy on any level for us.

Sd
X

[Mermaid]

Hi superdog, lighthouse and everyone eles reading,

Like everything, there's no right or wrong answer, only consequences to our actions for ourselves and everyone else around.

Super dog, I know you've thought long and hard about this, and have already reached many wise conclusions.

I agree, we shouldn't repress our feelings, and their behaviour would make anyone angry. Personally, I'm not the repressing type. If I'm angry, I say exactly what I think. But then it sets up the cycle of H withdrawing, as if it was nothing to do with him, and then I get madder. The result is a showdown (my part) and giving the silent icy treatment (his part) It just doesn't work, an alternative is necessary. Either we walk away from the relationship altogether or we find a different way to react. This is what this thread is about... What alternatives are there?

One of the links above suggests that we can/should tell them calmly that their behaviour is upsetting, so it's not like we should reward their behaviour either by accepting it/ ignoring it or playing our part and confirming their expectations by getting mad... Either gives them too much power.

PA behaviour is not genetic. Traits and dispositions are, such as degrees of sensitivity, adaptability to change, etc. But PDs would still need the environment from which to learn the behaviour. Having a parent behaving that way is one way to learn it. My H is very sensitive, and was the eldest son. His mother is always giving the silent treatment when something bothers her. But I've never seen this behaviour in my sisters in law.

Are they conscious of what they do? Most behaviour ( 95%) is automatic, not decided consciously. They may or may not be aware of what they are doing, but they can certainly become aware. If we shout (like I do) they will focus on our behaviour rather than their own. Having said that, my H. Has been changing his behaviour over the past couple of years. He's much less likely to give me the silent treatment for 24 hours like he used to.

Another good point super dog, are they capable of love? As one of the links above points out, they tend to objectify us, which means they focus on their own feelings about us rather than ours. I've felt this for years. Yes, I believe that there is a part of H that is capable of loving me for myself, but that part is not always available. It's under layers of defensive behaviour (which is what PA is).

But they are all different. My H has PA behaviours, but that doesn't totally define him. He's capable of love, but are they all? I don't know.

But as OP says, wisely as ever, we have to figure the next step to fixing ourselves, not them.

[superdog]

Great points mermaid.

I totally agree in fixing up ourselves and showing anger in a healthy way was one of my points to work on.  Speaking up about how others make me feel is another  rather than just bursting out with an angry statement. That is not for anyone's benefit but mine.

If I am honest I really upset myself writing these posts as I had a flood of emotions related to my upbringing and to my old marriage. But I also recognised that I have personally come a long way.

Working with a PD person is not a one way street. If a mutual compromise is not found then one person will always be compromised. I see no alternative to that unfortunately.  I will read on and see what others have in mind.

Sd
X

[Albatross]

“The passive aggressive will say one thing, do another, and then deny ever saying the first thing. They don’t communicate their needs and wishes in a clear manner, expecting their spouse to read their mind and meet their needs. After all, if their spouse truly loved them he/she would just naturally know what they needed or wanted. The passive aggressive withholds information about how he/she feels; their ego is fragile and can’t take the slightest criticism. So why would they let you know what they are thinking or feeling?”

This is best what ever I found about PA. PA is PD disorder. Can be on scale from very mild till severe - pathological.

[Mermaid]

Here are a few tips I found for dealing with the fragile ego of the PA:

Disengage: When we disengage, we set aside differences temporarily, while we remain willing to address them at a later time. It involves taking time to reflect, reduce the tension, and let our emotions settle.
Empathize: To empathize is to put ourselves figuratively in the other person's place. That very act will help squelch defensiveness because we acknowledge what the other person is feeling.
Inquire: When we inquire, we uncover the concerns of the other person. Asking questions allows us to focus on our task rather than our disagreement. After we inquire, we need to listen carefully, giving the other person our complete attention.
Disclose: When we disclose, we reveal our feelings, needs and goals to the other person. We can do this with "I statements" that describe our emotions, the precipitating event, and its tangible impact.
Depersonalize: When we depersonalize, we evaluate behavior rather than the person, and we look at our work as something we do rather than what we are. This allows us to free ourselves and others from the need to respond defensively.