[Not Applicable]

There are apparently some sort of correlations between alexithymia and sensitivity to touch. I'd have to read the full articles on these topics though to fully understand what it is.

[Not Applicable]

Here's one of the articles that I found interesting. They found that alexithymia correlated with identifying more negative emotions in others:
http://jes2s.com/may2014/Alexithymia.html

So to translate that into MLCers. They are imagining we have negative thoughts when we don't.

Another thing that struck be during a recent conversation I had with my husband is that when I told him he seemed depressed, he responded, "I'm not depressed..." Basically he denied being depressed but his voice trailed off as if he was looking for the right word to describe what he felt but he couldn't. And this is one of the characteristics of alexithymia, the inability to describe emotions.

[Not Applicable]

Here's someone describing what sounds like MLC in an alexithymia forum: http://www.alexithymia.us/forum_In+a+relationship+with+a+person+who+has+alexithymia.html?topicid=662&pageid=

[Trustandlove]

As ever, interesting.  I had actually never heard the term "alexithmya" before.

Certainly my H has difficulty describing emotions, although he has regularly articulated that he feels guilty.  But then he has also repeatedly said that "guilt is a negative emotion, and I don't want to feel that".

A counsellor who met him closer to the beginning of all this said that he had never met a person with less empathy.  But again, he only met MLC H, hadn't known him before. 

One thing that I observed last year, when we last had a conversation about it, was that when I asked if he could put himself into my shoes he absolutely didn't know how to even approach that.  I asked if he could look at it from my point of view and that also didn't register.   I was surprised, because at the beginning of all this I asked what he'd feel like if it had been the other way round and he said "devastated". 

But looking from my point of view doesn't seem to register.  He can think about how HE feels, but not how anyone else feels.  My D has tried to talk about it; she has said to him that she finds it difficult to talk about feelings, all he says is that yes, me too.  And then laughs, as if it's "OK", because they both do that. 

So he in some way acknowledges it, but it doesn't go anywhere near to thinking that this should be in some way addressed, that it might not be right.

I know that during this whole mess I have tried to look at what on earth happened, it does keep coming round to depression, although he of course denies that, insisting that it's all me.  And that just finding the right other person will fix everything. 

I know that people we know have been grasping at straws, wondering if the complete personality change and complete lack of empathy is due to latent aspergers (not possible), or bipolar (again, I really don't think that's the case) or something else. 

We all, of course, go looking for something that we could treat.

I have some other experience with this; one of my sons has a whole host of difficulties; for years we had no diagnosis; it's not been diagnosed as autism, although there are things in common with that; his profile is considered "spiky", because he can do some things you'd think he couldn't do, and can't do some things you'd think he could do. 

Much is to do with language, and in his case there WAS some brain damage at birth.  Although the doctors said that it should only affect motor skills, I'm absolutely convinced that it affects other things as well; even the neurologists were the first to say that they are never sure how the brain works, that when one function gets impaired another part of the brain can take over that function, but then something can happen to what that second part was supposed to do int he first place.

It's knock-on effects, and it's not something that they can predict.

In my S's case brain scans were done when he was a baby; last year he was in an accident and some more were done, as far as I know not showing a difference.  As we no longer have the original scans, the doctors were concerned that the damage was new, as the accident certainly could have caused that. 

I do think that, at least in my own H's case, it's to do with wanting to feel; that's the depression, and they need the heightened feeling.  My H very much needed/wanted high-adrenaline things; I don't think he knows what love actually is, to him it's the infatuation as far as I can tell.

At least the fact that he is on OW6 seems to bear that out. 

But he's also needed high-adrenaline in other areas of life; for years and years his job did that, then his hobby, all risky things. 

I am wondering if the years of a high-adrenaline environment trained his brain somehow to not be able to accept anything "less" as a positive.

I do know that the brain can be trained, because of my experience with my children I spent much time working on this, although they were mostly talking about physical things, such as getting a certain movement back in a hand or foot.  As long as there was some nerve connection there was the possibility of doing this. 

I also saw in my H, when he had an extended period without the "high" of an OW, that he really seemed to be returning to the person I knew, that his thinking seemed more clear.... he even showed pretty strong signs of starting to consider the possibility of some empathy for me.

   and you know the rest, the addiction returned, and so did monster and any ability to look at me and the children as having valid thoughts and feelings. 

I know from my S that when the environment is stable and safe he is able to think a bit more clearly; the minute it isn't all falls apart. 

But with S this was clearly due to brain injury at birth, whatever we all say about how men process information, etc. 

H wasn't always like that; hence us all trying to find something with a name to attribute it to.

But yes, I do wonder if there is something in H's brain that simply hasn't been identified, that perhaps my S is just a more extreme version of it.   

I do know that he is acting on emotion, rather than clear thought. 

[Not Applicable]

I'm wondering whether alexithymia could explain the rewriting of history that MLCers do. I mean when they say, I never loved you, our marriage was unhappy, etc. etc. and we know this simply isn't true.

To me what is so interesting is that as much as it seems like there is no logic to the MLCer mind, maybe there is actually an internal logic to it that we can find to explain some of the really odd stuff.

[Velika]

C4E, I agree. There are just too many specific medical symptoms and peculiarities common to these stories.

I have read on some threads about the stiff walk of a MLCer. Have others noticed this?

I looked up gait abnormalities and found this:

Frontal lobe systems involved in balance and gait include primary motor cortex, supplementary motor area, and prefrontal cortex.7 The frontal lobe projects to subcortical structures through periventricular white matter tracts in which the leg fibers are the most medial, hence the legs are most vulnerable to injury starting periventricularly.8 The extent of white matter disease when examined by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) predicts the likelihood of balance and gait problems.

So an illness/syndrome that affects the frontal lobe could also affect a person's motor fundtion.

[Not Applicable]

I keep reading about the eyes getting darker. My husband has pretty dark eyes to begin with so I am not sure I could ascertain this. I don't know about the gait thing either. I haven't noticed it.

I have read anecdotal stuff about certain mental illnesses being associated with a change in eye color, but couldn't find anything definite.

I keep thinking back to this article:
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_back-limbo-forward_doubt-and-confusion.html

The quote from the MLCer about when his wife stopped reacting. If it is alexithymia, perhaps the lack of reaction forces them to have no choice but to look inside themselves. Although I am not sure that is always going to happen, as sometimes i think they interpret silence negatively as well.

[Velika]

One fascinating thing that came up in my chat with another HS a member last night was sudden change in accent around bomb drop.

My husband would suddenly speak to me in a strong regional accent of his youth. My brother in law ran into him around this time and confirmed this.

Not only would he use this accent, he would also use colloquial expressions associated with this region. I had noticed sometimes when he went home his accent got stronger but this was much more extreme. This stopped after bomb drop as far as I know but I seldom talk to him anymore.
M

The other HS member noticed exact same in her husband, in another language!

Another change in "speech" was his writing style. What had previously been straightforward communication style became emotional and florid. A friend just told me he had reached out to her husband last spring and she noticed the exact same thing. She brought this up even though I had forgotten I had told her. The writing is almost overwrought.

Has anyone else observed this?

I tried to investigate and saw there is something called Foreign Accent Syndrome that can have neurological and psychological basis.

Approximately 86 percent of cases are linked to neurological damage in the speech centers of the brain, from strokes, trauma, or other diseases like multiple sclerosis, according to a study published earlier this year in the journal Frontiers in Human Neuroscience. These patients usually don't take on a specific accent — for example, they don't have a true German accent — but the general changes in their prosody, or speech, can be mistaken for a specific foreigner.

A second type of FAS is not associated to any brain changes at all. These cases are often psychological in nature. For example, anxiety, depression, or emotional trauma can change aspects of how the brain interprets information and can cause someone to change their speech patterns, according to the Frontiers in Human Neuroscience journal. This can happen even though there is no physiological trauma to the brain that can be detected. However, this does not mean a patient is "faking it," it just means changes have happened in their brain on a subconscious level.

I'm not sure this is related but it is another physical symptom I have noticed.

[Velika]

I keep reading about the eyes getting darker. My husband has pretty dark eyes to begin with so I am not sure I could ascertain this. I don't know about the gait thing either. I haven't noticed it.

I have read anecdotal stuff about certain mental illnesses being associated with a change in eye color, but couldn't find anything definite.

I keep thinking back to this article:
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_progress_back-limbo-forward_doubt-and-confusion.html

The quote from the MLCer about when his wife stopped reacting. If it is alexithymia, perhaps the lack of reaction forces them to have no choice but to look inside themselves. Although I am not sure that is always going to happen, as sometimes i think they interpret silence negatively as well.

Thank you for posting this article, I hadn't read it in a while.

I agree that the best thing is to stop reacting or maintain minimum contact until that is possible.

I have noticed, however, that my husband last year would use any reaction as an excuse.

So if I argued, then we couldn't be together. If I don't talk to him and won't be "friends," this justifies whatever decision he wants to make at the time. When I was kind or validating, however, he would feel satisfied it was all working out and I think this too exacerbated his condition as he didn't have to face any consequences.

Fundamentally I agree however -- less emotion from LBS the better.

[Anjae]

Christina, personality disorders do not show in adulthood. They tend to show in adolescence, somtimes earlier, and, at most, in early twenties.

Like Thunder said, if you've known your husband since 10, you had already noticed it.

Interesting about the alexithymia, but I don't think so. Depression is more what MLCer are suffering from. RCR and HB probably could not tell how to relate with alexithymia because that is most likely something that is not affecting MLCers. And even it it was, none of them is a doctor or a psychologist. Alexithymia is usually combined with other psychiatric issues, so, yes, it could be there, brought by the depression, but the main issue with MLCers is depression. Neither RCR nor HB have specific advise to deal with depressed people because, like I said, they are not doctors or psychologists.

I think focusing on clusters of symptoms like this is more fruitful for those of us who don't have a background in hard sciences.

Maybe, but this thread is for Biochemistry, Neurotransmitters, and Brain Research. How many times will I have to say the same, Changing? You keep coming here and telling about your husband, and yourself. Please do so on your own thread. And please understand the scope of this thread. Even so, hard sciences focuss on clusters of symptoms.

I have read on some threads about the stiff walk of a MLCer. Have others noticed this?

Yes, Velika, we have. If you have been reading the threads, then you know it has been noticed by others. How else could people have mentioned it, if they have not noticed it?