[MyBrainIsBroken]

You know, the same thing happened to me. I slowly quit sharing with W because she was unresponsive, then she told me after BD she could talk to OM about anything. She just about destroyed my confidence in my ability to communicate with people. And I'm a teacher.

[always hopeful]

Mbib....and those same issues will work its way into your Ws and OMs R.  Maybe she will see this and work on it, maybe she wont. 

[Medusa]

Well, how  can they communicate with us since we are responsible for all their unhappiness?   We need to remember that they have got to make us far worse than we really are in order to do what they're doing.

The OP is not a reflection of us or our marriage, they are a reflection of our spouses. I am confident that mine wound up with the person he wound up with because she seems to be very much like my MIL. I believe he's working through his FOO issues with this woman.

But as HT said! none of that really matters. The best thing that's happened to me in the 18 months since BD was asking him to move out--on Thanksgiving Day with the turkey in the over. Since then my life has become peaceful and sane. I've been able to let go of the emotional rope, and the anchor is in my boat. I don't anticipate he will try to come back because even though he dropped a lot of hints at wanting to when he still loved here, since them when divorce comes up he says he's "pretty sure". That used to give me hope. Now I just think he's too much of a coward to admit he wants out of the marriage. And guess what: I want out, too. For me its now just a matter of time.

UL, none of us knows where were going to be next week, next month, or next year. If anyone had told me I would want a divorce 6 months ago, I would have laughed at them. Now I am practically counting the days until we finally get through mediation and I can file. I've been married 27 years (and counting), and while 25.5 of those years were excellent, they are in the past. You will change. You will cycle. Ad you will come out of this stronger and better than you can ever have imagined.

[UnconditionalLove]

Thank Medusa!
I'm sure I will become stronger. What scares me is the most is I have nobody. My whole life was my H. I don't really have any family, we moved to another state so I don't have friends, I have a long term cancer that is living in me but hasn't cause much havoc that I will need to deal with at some point. I do need surgery but it looks like he has messed that up for now too.

I am a strong independent person who as taken care of her man for 30 years. He was extremely dependent on me to run our business and our household. He had his things he brought to the table but all the stuff I did was the complicated stuff so being on my own really will probably be much stressless.  But, I love him, I don't trust him right now but I love who he was.

As far as H not talking to me. He did the same thing as your spouses.  Just before the BD he quit coming home every night till late.  I had already started reading about MLC so I didn't push him on what he was doing. Looking back though...he was already detaching knowing he was moving into a EA or was detaching because he was already in it. Either way he wasn't going to talk R because in his head it was already over.  He and EA had already made themselves known to each other and I was dead to him.  All he didn't to sort out was all the reason he was angry at me. 
1. I didn't allow him to go to medical school when we were in our early 30's.
2. I stopped watching tv with him in the basement after our basement flooded twice and I just couldn't bear to go down there. Plus, I don't like the same shows he did and I could have made some changes in that.  But we didn't watch much tv because we were always busy.
I crushed his dream.  At least in his eyes.  He didn't try to get himself in Medical school but it's my fault because he can't take responsibility for it.
Those are two reasons on the D papers. 

Hoping at some point H gets himself back into town. Our company needs him to go back to work. He should have had a nice 11 days with his OW but now if he didn't bring her back with him we'll probably crash.

[nah]

Quote
she was there when he needed someone to talk to, she could have been anyone but she is the one who paid him attention at the time

This part of the OW thing infuriates me... whenever I had a problem, I would run to talk to him. For the last months before BD he was completely avoiding me, either coming home late from work or shutting himself away with his stupid videogames and tv... why, the one time he needed to talk to someone, didn't he turn to me? I was right there, trying to engage him, paying him all the attention in the world, wondering why he was ignoring me... grrrr.

It was about our R, our life together, and I was left completely in the dark and he talked to a stranger instead. It makes me want to scream it's so annoying. I was totally denied agency regarding my own life, even simply the right to know wtf was going on, to have an opinion... just like all of us LBS. How infuriating.


Gosh Dagolark. ... I couldn't have put it better myself. Exactly what my h did talk to another woman about how unhappy he allegedly was blah blah blah . It hurts to think ghat he couldn't talk to us he'd rather talk to a stranger. And leave us wondering what the hell has happened to our world ! Unfathomable . X

Thats b/c we know the real them. They are trying on a new "mask" with someone else they can pretend to be someone they are not.  Dag- your MLCer is also a musician.  Mine actually said to me right before BD that he likes to be on stage so he can pretend he is a "character".

The thing is you can't pretend forever.  You can do it for a while but in the end the truth will come out.

They tell the ow they are unhappy with us.  They probably even believe it.  They are avoiding reality.  They are trying to avoid that they are unhappy with themselves.  MLC in a nutshell.
 

[bipolared]

Thats b/c we know the real them. They are trying on a new "mask" with someone else they can pretend to be someone they are not.  Dag- your MLCer is also a musician.  Mine actually said to me right before BD that he likes to be on stage so he can pretend he is a "character".

The thing is you can't pretend forever.  You can do it for a while but in the end the truth will come out.

They tell the ow they are unhappy with us.  They probably even believe it.  They are avoiding reality.  They are trying to avoid that they are unhappy with themselves.  MLC in a nutshell.

I really believe this.  H has told me over and over how he is never nervous around me, that he feels like he can say anything which makes me believe that he has the mask on for OW.  He will look happy for a while with a new relationship(on OW2 now) but eventually calls me talking about his anxiety and how I seem so cheerful and together and he just gets worse.

[MeNow]

Quote
she was there when he needed someone to talk to, she could have been anyone but she is the one who paid him attention at the time

This part of the OW thing infuriates me... whenever I had a problem, I would run to talk to him. For the last months before BD he was completely avoiding me, either coming home late from work or shutting himself away with his stupid videogames and tv... why, the one time he needed to talk to someone, didn't he turn to me? I was right there, trying to engage him, paying him all the attention in the world, wondering why he was ignoring me... grrrr.

It was about our R, our life together, and I was left completely in the dark and he talked to a stranger instead. It makes me want to scream it's so annoying. I was totally denied agency regarding my own life, even simply the right to know wtf was going on, to have an opinion... just like all of us LBS. How infuriating.


Gosh Dagolark. ... I couldn't have put it better myself. Exactly what my h did talk to another woman about how unhappy he allegedly was blah blah blah . It hurts to think ghat he couldn't talk to us he'd rather talk to a stranger. And leave us wondering what the hell has happened to our world ! Unfathomable . X

Thats b/c we know the real them. They are trying on a new "mask" with someone else they can pretend to be someone they are not.  Dag- your MLCer is also a musician.  Mine actually said to me right before BD that he likes to be on stage so he can pretend he is a "character".

The thing is you can't pretend forever.  You can do it for a while but in the end the truth will come out.

They tell the ow they are unhappy with us.  They probably even believe it.  They are avoiding reality.  They are trying to avoid that they are unhappy with themselves.  MLC in a nutshell.

They probably aren't discussing their problems with each other either. They're avoiding them altogether or dealing with them the same way as when they were with you.

In the beginning stage with OP (which is where a lot of your spouses are), it's all lovey dovey fantasy teenage gibberish.
In some of the longer term OP sitches, you can tell spouse isn't really happy, they are having more OP problems. Infatuation has worn off.

[Searching4Answers]

In the beginning stage with OP (which is where a lot of your spouses are), it's all lovey dovey fantasy teenage gibberish.
In some of the longer term OP sitches, you can tell spouse isn't really happy, they are having more OP problems. Infatuation has worn off.

My H openly admitted that he would go back to OW for sex - he wasn't interested in a long term relationship but isn't going to pass on the invitation. This is probably why he has gone back to her 4 times.

[Medusa]

UL, you will be okay. I am a military wife and followed mine around the country. I didn't have many friends at BD. Now I have tons of them. I work from my home, so I'm out a lot in the evenings...just because I don't think its good for me to be alone for days on end.

It's very easy to obsess about the OW. Letting go of that is imperative to our healing. Removing them from our lives is also important, as far as I'm concerned. I honestly believe that we cannot heal if we don't let them go physically and emotionally. When they are in replay, they will do whatever they want for their own gratification and not care one whit about hurting anyone else. When I look back on the stuff mine did to me, I am appalled that I allowed myself to be treated the way I was. However, I had to go through all of that to reach the point where I am now. I had to suffer the way I did in order to find my strength and know how much I love myself, to fully realize and accept that I was never the problem.

UL, 11 days is nothing in the MLC landscape. Nothing. You already know the affairs last for years and sometimes do become permanent relationships. Again, that has nothing to do with us. If they want to be in a relationship based on lies and deceit, that's their choice.

[onlyjo]

UL
i tried TWICE yesterday to post and lost both posts (through user error--uuugh)

all answers given here are right on point.  i am 3+years into this thing they call MLC and can tell you that the OP is the same as drugs or alcohol--just something the MLCer uses to make him/herself feel better. 

and at some level, i think a lot of MLCers KNOW--they know what they've done is wrong, they know what they're giving up, they know they're leaving a wake of destruction, they know they have hurt the people who love them...they KNOW all these things at some level. 

in the early days, about 3 months after BD i received a long email from my ex h.  here's a quote from the long email, in which he indicated that he knew what he'd done, that he was weak and i was strong, and i would never be able to understand...he also mentioned that his emotional baggage had "swallowed him whole"--i have no idea what that emotional baggage was or is...because he chose not to share it with me.  who knows whether he shared it with the OW or not...

I looked to a noncredable person to help pick me up.  That
was so wrong.  i am so sorry.  I can prove that I am a better man.
And that you deserve better.

ultimately, this was just lip service because ex h's actions didn't match his words.  the words, however, tell me that he KNEW AND KNOWS that what he did was wrong, wrong, wrong.  and he CHOSE to run, rather than face the music, or the mirror, or hard work, or unpleasantness.  HE CHOSE TO RUN.  and he's still running. 

i really have no idea whether OW is in the picture, and i don't really care with regard to ex h's relationship with her.  just like medusa said, if he CHOOSES a relationship based on lies and deceit, HIS CHOICE.  a lifelong friend of mine has always said this:
"if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you"
and i think he's right on the money.  so ex h will always be waiting for the other shoe to drop with OW, if he stays with her..

the part i HATE, HATE, HATE, is that this OW spends time with my girls.  the fact that ex h has insinuated her into the lives of my children is abhorrent to me.  and there's not a whole lot i can do about it other than to reinforce MY values and MY expectations with my girls all the time--kindness, generosity, honesty, accountability--we talk about these things ALL THE TIME.  meanwhile back at the ranch, last i heard, OW was being all smarmy and nice to my 3d's--fixing them special meals and such--uuuugh.  not real life folks.  ex h and OW are obviously still living in head-up-assland...

and your h is too, i bet, living in that same land.  i'm 3+ years into this, and there are other long-timers on the board who have been at it longer than i have who have wonderful insight they're willing to share. 

at the end of the day, what helped me greatly was to really internalize what those on the board told me:  THIS IS HIS CRISIS.  my wonderful mentor, Ready2Transform, was instrumental, as were many others here, in helping me to understand that I really could not do anything to help my ex h.  ultimately, we divorced, which, again unfortunately, was the safest choice for me due to the fact that ex h had BURNED THROUGH THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS and was continuing to spend money like a fool, but secretly...uuugh.  don't want to go back to those days...

so, fooling ourselves?  i don't know.  what i DO know is that i would not want any kind of relationship like ex h's and OW's--a relationship that was based on sneaking around, meeting in hotel rooms, lying to EVERYONE...that's not how i want to live my life. i guess OW is fine with living that way, and so is ex h, which is very sad for all parties involved. 
that's what i think about MLC these days--just sad, sad, sad.
take care of YOU!
onlyjo