[terrified_in_TN]

Mine has said on various occasions at I deserve better... As I said earlier in is thread, I believe the OP is a reflection of what the MLCer thinks of him/herself. It's called affair down for a reason.

They really can't seem to help what their doing. I was fortunate enough to have one that is very self-reflective. He truly wanted to stop. Truly. He tried as much as he could, but he just couldn't stop it. I am convinced, now, that he had to become as cruel as he was to me in order to force me to ask him to move out. He wanted to do it but couldn't pull the trigger. He was stuc, in his tunnel for a long time, just as I was stuck in my hurt and obsession. Regardless, they cannot seem to stop themselves until they totally crash and hit bottom because they have to deal with their demons. Another reason we just have to look to ourselves and.

I've said to many people many times, you can't look at anything connected to MLC with logic because there is no logic.

  Thanks for that.  Mine too has said that I deserve better.  I thought she was just trying to get me to move on with my life so she could "have fun".  I did not really think to take that comment with sincerity.  I believe my wife has been in MLC for YEARS.  It wasn't until this young guy payed her some attention that she really "woke up" (bomb drop).  But in hindsight she was scared to take that leap into "Replay".  When I gave her the ultimatum to break contact with OM or leave, now I see that was the green light she was waiting for.

  As a logical thinker, and I know there is no logic in MLC, I still cannot FATHOM HOW you can not see the obvious bad choices that you are making.  Then again, my own little MLC in 2009, I guess I can see how it all goes out the window with infatuation.

  Oddly enough I keep saying I had a "mini MLC", but now I am starting to wonder if I started an attempt at high energy replay with old flame, that didn't pan out, so I turned into a low energy wallower.  That could explain the stagnation on my part in my marriage that triggered w's MLC...Never really thought about that before.  If that is the case, my MLC lasted way longer than I thought.  If that really is true, then the start of her replay brought me out of wallowing because I have made some serious improvements "in myself".  I am MUCH more involved with my kids, have opened up to people at work (I NEVER spoke of my personal life with ANYONE in 17 years I worked there), and found myself not being quite as shy as I used to be.  I don't know, maybe my changes are just the result of w's replay, but I actually feel better than I have in a long time.  I know I will still cycle down at times though.

-Terrified

[UnconditionalLove]

My H told me today after I asked him if we was going to go with me to surgery. He said, you said you didn't want me to go. Me- I said are you going to go with me when I have surgery? He said, well here's my delinma, I don't want to make any life or death decisions if a fluk should happen because everyone will blame me.  Me - So, again this is all about you?

Mean while he spent all summer helping his EA through her holistic treatment and being her knight in shinning armor. 

So, looks like it's too much to ask of my husband who is a physican to be with me even though divorce proceeding has started. 

[The lighthouse]

Mine has said on various occasions at I deserve better... As I said earlier in is thread, I believe the OP is a reflection of what the MLCer thinks of him/herself. It's called affair down for a reason.

They really can't seem to help what their doing. I was fortunate enough to have one that is very self-reflective. He truly wanted to stop. Truly. He tried as much as he could, but he just couldn't stop it. I am convinced, now, that he had to become as cruel as he was to me in order to force me to ask him to move out. He wanted to do it but couldn't pull the trigger. He was stuc, in his tunnel for a long time, just as I was stuck in my hurt and obsession. Regardless, they cannot seem to stop themselves until they totally crash and hit bottom because they have to deal with their demons. Another reason we just have to look to ourselves and.

I've said to many people many times, you can't look at anything connected to MLC with logic because there is no logic.

  Thanks for that.  Mine too has said that I deserve better.  I thought she was just trying to get me to move on with my life so she could "have fun".  I did not really think to take that comment with sincerity.  I believe my wife has been in MLC for YEARS.

The first thing mine said to me at BD was that I deserved better.  That he created sh#t everywhere he went.  My first thought was well, don't you think OW deserves better?  I didn't know about MLC and affair down then.  Now I understand he didn't care what she deserved and still doesn't.  It's all about him.  In hindsight mine was in some sort of crisis for a long time and he knew something was wrong.  He was slowly spiraling down but he didn't have the tools to do anything about it. 

iT, is to doesn't seem to be that uncommon for them to know and admit to basically throwing us away. Mine has said on various occasions at I deserve better, that he hasn't been a very good husband, etc., etc. You have to look at it as them showing their guilt and believing that they deserve something lesser than us. And that makes sense: as they are working through whatever their issues are, they need their "drug" and it has to be something that helps them crash to their bottom. I don't think they could do this if they had a OP who had morals and refused to be with a married person. As I said earlier in is thread, I believe the OP is a reflection of what the MLCer thinks of him/herself. It's called affair down for a reason.

I think once they're in crisis they have only one choice, and that's forward, and they have to go all the way through it till they hopefully hit rock bottom.  The OP seems to be in almost all cases a necessary part of this process.  Someone on the forum once said they don't look for people better than us, they look for people worse than themselves and I truly believe that.

[Mermaid]

The OP seems to be in almost all cases a necessary part of this process.  Someone on the forum once said they don't look for people better than us, they look for people worse than themselves and I truly believe that.

The OP seems to be normal, but let's not generalize about who they are.

They are (obviously) people who have no scruples about getting involved with a married person, but some of them genuinely believe that their affair partner is unhappy in his/her marriage. Sometimes it is true.

OP (old pilot) commented on my thread 4 years ago that my H and the OW were getting their needs met through the R (in this case an EA) and there was nothing I could do except let it run its course. I thought I knew better, but now I see that by demanding it to end, I was pushing them together (just as old pilot had warned me).

The point is, they both had needs. Emotional needs, in my H's case. The OW was similar to him in many respects (though I don't like to think this). She was a perfectionist workaholic doctor like him, with difficulties in intimate relationships. She was callous and manipulative though, and totally lacking in empathy for those she walked over. But hardly a classic affair down. Pretty, petite, clever, successful. And young. Half my age.

But she wasn't me, she didn't make demands on him (the fact that it was an EA meant that there was space for both). She acted like his friend, while making no commitments. My H was the one who was totally hooked on her.

They don't look for one type of person. They look for a person who seems to meet their needs, when they cannot look to us for that (and that may have nothing to do with us, but their own difficulties with life). Sometimes its trailer trash, sometimes not.

[Janus2014]

I agree with Mermaid.  Demanding that it end pushes them together.  I have since learned that when I found out who the OW was, she backed away and told him to work on his marriage, although she left the option open for his return to her.   H came towards me - largely, I think, b/c H didn't want to end up alone.  But there was something about my knowing who OW was that changed H's behavior - H at least expressed remorse and despair at his A.  However, H was still enmeshed with OW emotionally and when I found out, I lost my temper, and OW looked a lot more dignified in H's eyes.  So here we are - I am preparing for D.

I thought that my H had a "type," but the OW is the opposite of that.  She looks somewhat like a younger version of his mother, although she is not particularly young.  She does work, but has financial problems.  She absolutely met my H's needs by telling him he was fabulous. 

[nah]

But hardly a classic affair down. Pretty, petite, clever, successful. And young. Half my age.

This does not mean she was not an "affair down".

with difficulties in intimate relationships. She was callous and manipulative though, and totally lacking in empathy for those she walked over.

This does.

[Medusa]

Thinking about affair down...for me, anyone who would knowingly be in a relationship with a married person is affair down. Anyone who has so little self-respect as to become an OP is affair down.

That said, the OP only knows what the MLCer tells them, so of course they believe their lover is unhappy in his/her marriage. The MLCer is unhappy and blames the marriage. Its normal affair-speak (MLC or not). I have little doubt that the OP believes the LBS to be a horrible, vile individual because that's what they are told. But do they ever ask, if you were so miserable being married to this person why did you stay in the marriage for so long? I'm guessing not. If they have deep conversations, there are likely a lot of lies involved because the MLCer doesn't want the OP to see the "real" them.

[MeNow]

I agree that there is also an affair down in terms of character.

[toomanytearss]

I agree Medusa.  My h's ow knew he was married.  I'm sure the affair was in full swing before he ever bd'd me.  No matter what terrible things he said about me, the answer from her should have been, "If your so miserable why are you still married? And until you are divorced I am not interested." 

So I think very little of these affair partners whose excuse is that they were told how horrible we are, and how miserable their our h's are in the marriage so that should make it all ok.  NO.  But it does clearly show these people have little care or concern for anyone other than themselves.  They themselves are obviously broken people who have no control over themselves, possibly why they are so controlling to our spouses, who of course, eat that up because they don't even know what day of the week it is half the time.  Or the opposite and they want to be controlled and our spouses feel powerful. 

Either way, it's not a lasting recipe for the most part.  And even though the ow owes me nothing, didn't make a commitment to me, I dislike her as much as I do my h.  To me she is an ugly troll, nothing more. 

[MyBrainIsBroken]

That said, the OP only knows what the MLCer tells them, so of course they believe their lover is unhappy in his/her marriage. The MLCer is unhappy and blames the marriage.

I may be naive or in denial, but in my Ws case I don't think she initially thought the marriage was the problem. I know before the A began my W was seriously depressed and she didn't know why. We talked about it and that is what she told me. And based on what I know about the OM, who another member of the board said sounded like "true pond scum affair down", I believe the OM is a predator who realized W was vulnerable and convinced her the marriage was the problem and he was the solution.

I don't believe this is true in all cases but I believe in some cases the MLCer may be going through a difficult midlife transition and there are enough sick people out there that one of them gets ahold of them and turns it into a full blown crisis.