[Searching4Answers]

Wow, that must be rough. I don't know how you cope with that.

Do you have any "plan" in mind to stop his continuing weekly behavior, which sounds like cake eating to its fullest??? Something's got to give to encourage a change in him and I doubt it will be her detaching. 

There is nothing that I can do to stop his behavior - it is not my problem. There really isn't much cake eating - I don't do anything for him and we are just civil enough to remain in the same house. I have tried several times to get him to leave and he won't budge. OW is an affair down - she will be the death of their relationship at some point. I am fairly detached from the situation. He has been seeing OW on and off for 2 years now!

[Peace Joy Love and Time]

Willit, my H agreed to stay 3 nights in my home with our D15 and our dogs while I went out of town for a job interview about a month ago. It provided me an opportunity to open lines of communication with H that had been closed for a while and I am sure it was the first time he hadn't slept with OW since he moved in with her in January.  Plus he slept in MY bed. Must have pissed her off royally.

In the weeks since I have had only negative interactions with H which have included a final push for the divorce.  I like to think that these negative texts have been prompted by OW and her issues but bottom line is that divorce is happening. 

Whatever strides I had made towards communication have been negated by him apparently trying to make it up to her for being with his daughter.  I am hoping and praying that he eventually sees through her and her manipulation but I think it may be a while yet.

[Janus2014]

June,

Thanks for commenting about expats.  I think of where H works as a "sunny place for shady people." Western marital values and our version of women's rights are not in play.  H has been there almost 2 years.  H flew OW in a couple of times.

I do think H was exhausted by all this earlier this year.  Someone claiming to be OW's sister sent me a "revenge" email revealing the A, saying H was a liar and the sister was using H for $$$.  H didn't buy that it came from her.     But H expressed remorse and a desire to rebuild our M.  However, the OW relationship wasn't really over and he's been yo-yoing back and forth since.

That whole mess made me express upset in less than positive ways a few months ago, but I haven't gotten outwardly upset since.  The closest is H getting upset today and saying that because we had a nice day together, why wouldn't we be intimate? 

 I'm thinking, I'm supposed to feel comfortable with someone who won't go anywhere in the house without his backpack, for fear I will look in it?  Who creeps around in the dark?  Who stands and stares at me, or across the room, in the dark, when he thinks I am asleep?

All I replied was that I'm not comfortable because H will leave and go back thousands of miles away, and I won't know what is going on.  H said there is nothing he can do about that.  And that my refusing intimacy b/c H won't discuss the R is making HIM feel cheap.  OK then.

H lives in a fantasy world and I gather that OW does, too.  Dr. Who, Lord of the Rings.  Everything is an epic drama.  OW has a job, but she lives in a socialist country.  She's a divorcee with a couple of kids and little extra money.  I figure that she is never going anywhere as long as H will pay attention to her. 

I gather that H wants to see if he can have a nice time with me - including intimacy - as a prelude to deciding whether H may come back.  Or H could just be here to stage manage the break up.  What I do know is that doing it his way in the past has only made me feel disrespected and traumatized.  So if the boundaries I need for my own well being cause H to run again, he was running anyway.

[june]

June,

Thanks for commenting about expats.  I think of where H works as a "sunny place for shady people." Western marital values and our version of women's rights are not in play.  H has been there almost 2 years.  H flew OW in a couple of times.

H lives in a fantasy world and I gather that OW does, too.  Dr. Who, Lord of the Rings.  Everything is an epic drama.  OW has a job, but she lives in a socialist country.  She's a divorcee with a couple of kids and little extra money.  I figure that she is never going anywhere as long as H will pay attention to her. 

I gather that H wants to see if he can have a nice time with me - including intimacy - as a prelude to deciding whether H may come back.  Or H could just be here to stage manage the break up.  What I do know is that doing it his way in the past has only made me feel disrespected and traumatized.  So if the boundaries I need for my own well being cause H to run again, he was running anyway.

Just want to point out that my husband had three wild nights of sex, including sex in a night club...and then went to work and came home and said it was over.  Beware I have since learned that men in particular will just sex to decide if a partner is worth sticking around for....when they have already decided.

Science research concluded that both men and women get the hormone rush in sex that creates feeling of bonding, but males don't carry that rush beyond the sexual act itself. Males are often diagnosed, as having have sealed off sex, where there is no bonding mentally - purely physical. The male oxytosin rush is gone immediately, in all men. They say this biological response apparently fuels many men's need for very regular sex to feel bonded. Women are wired to bond due to sustained oxytosin after sex and they build on it further with the mind (yes, women can have sealed-off sex, but it's atypical)  I mention this because sex with a loose cannon can be dangerous or helpful....depends on how you play.

Knowing how bodies may will react (outside the mind) isn't bad. personally I know that my husband is a drug for me. When he is sweet (as he has been for three days in emails) I can't stop my hope from growing and warm feelings return like nothing bad ever happened....it's not good and puts me on the crazy train.

[Janus2014]

Thanks, June.  My experience is that when H hadn't ruled out reconciling our marriage, H was insistent on talking about our relationship.  Once H thought it was over and he had gotten OW back on the string, H didn't want to talk about our marriage.  Trying to get me to be intimate with him is, in my opinion, just an ego thing. 

The good news is that with H around and acting like its a normal holiday, I sit there and see everything through the prism of the affair.  I don't think I want to invest my time and energy in someone who is capable of this kind of deception, whether it is due to MLC, or otherwise.  If H wanted to get a D because of my short MLC 6 years ago, he could have done that in an "honorable" manner.  To handle things this way is just vile. 

[twiceburnt]

Just want to point out that my husband had three wild nights of sex, including sex in a night club...and then went to work and came home and said it was over.  Beware I have since learned that men in particular will just sex to decide if a partner is worth sticking around for....when they have already decided.

Science research concluded that both men and women get the hormone rush in sex that creates feeling of bonding, but males don't carry that rush beyond the sexual act itself. Males are often diagnosed, as having have sealed off sex, where there is no bonding mentally - purely physical. The male oxytosin rush is gone immediately, in all men. They say this biological response apparently fuels many men's need for very regular sex to feel bonded. Women are wired to bond due to sustained oxytosin after sex and they build on it further with the mind (yes, women can have sealed-off sex, but it's atypical)  I mention this because sex with a loose cannon can be dangerous or helpful....depends on how you play.

I'm sorry to hear he did that to you June, and you are aware of it.  Our imaginations are bad enough.

Your second paragraph makes me really wonder how a man can get sucked into MLC so easily.  I know of a guy who had an affair on his W, but it was a one night stand and he didn't "fall in love" and leave his spouse for it (it was an alcohol fueled stupid decision - no excuse though). Mainly because, yes, that is mostly true for guys.  Then again, he was in his early 30's so probably not quite MLC age yet. 

I can certainly see guys getting a sports car, a motorcycle, or some other material object to try to re-kindle some youth (which is where the MLC stereotype comes from), but not the leave your spouse, have an affair(s), treat her worse than your worst enemy, etc.  That part is what is crazy to me.  I'm sure most of us could live with a new material item.

[twiceburnt]

One thing that has been kind of perplexing me, mainly from her lies today, is after they admit to an affair, why do they still lie?!?  During my first bout, she denied and denied.  She never admitted to anything until she came begging back, even though the evidence was painfully obvious.

I'm starting to think that she would have done the same if she wouldn't have gotten caught by 2 of my friends.  So maybe she's reverting back to the "he's just a friend" stage because that is her default behavior?!  I don't know.  It is just so weird.  Maybe she's trying to protect me (herself actually) from the damage the truth is capable of.  Oh well, one more messed up/delusional attribute an MLCer displays....so odd.

She went "scouting elk" with her uncle today supposedly.  She said she felt "so privileged" because they never share their secret hunting spots with anybody.  She's NEVER done this before, nor has she been invited (me neither, so if OM was, I'll feel even more betrayed - not that I really care, I guess it is just the principal of it).  Granted, her uncle is in MLC as well from what I can tell.  The stupid part is we got close to 9 inches of snow today in town.  I'm sure the mountains got 2-3 times that.  I'm surprised they didn't get stuck and stranded. Then again, it is probably a lie so she could spend the day with OM instead.  Or all 3 went so OM could bond with her uncle..who knows.

[nah]

I like to think that these negative texts have been prompted by OW and her issues but bottom line is that divorce is happening. 

Whatever strides I had made towards communication have been negated by him apparently trying to make it up to her for being with his daughter. 

I truly believe that some need to get divorced b/c they feel that is what is causing the pain inside them.  When the divorce is done and the dust settles, what if that pain is still there?  Who are they going to turn on?  Plus, this person was an active participant in the destruction of our family, part of the cause of the wedge between them and their children. 

It sucks that it takes so much time.   

[Adia]

One thing that has been kind of perplexing me, mainly from her lies today, is after they admit to an affair, why do they still lie?!?  During my first bout, she denied and denied.  She never admitted to anything until she came begging back, even though the evidence was painfully obvious.

I'm starting to think that she would have done the same if she wouldn't have gotten caught by 2 of my friends.  So maybe she's reverting back to the "he's just a friend" stage because that is her default behavior?!  I don't know.  It is just so weird.  Maybe she's trying to protect me (herself actually) from the damage the truth is capable of.  Oh well, one more messed up/delusional attribute an MLCer displays....so odd.

It's been said on here many times that one of the traits of mlc is the lying. They lie constantly it seems and not just about the big things - affairs, where they live, ect. I believe they do this for a couple of reasons at least one being that they really do not want to damage the potential of a relationship with you if or when they ever decide to consider the LBS as a viable option and want to return. In their teenage thinking, they are trying to preserve some of your feelings. Of course, like all of their actions, it is mostly for their benefit.

I have asked my husband multiple times why since I now know, is he still lying about everything. Besides the "I don't want to hurt you" He also said to me one time "because I have done so many things that I am deeply ashamed of". Apparently, he is aware of his actions going against his inner self (core person) but cannot stop the behavior.   
Adia

[Darth Obo]

Science research concluded that both men and women get the hormone rush in sex that creates feeling of bonding, but males don't carry that rush beyond the sexual act itself. Males are often diagnosed, as having have sealed off sex, where there is no bonding mentally - purely physical. The male oxytosin rush is gone immediately, in all men. They say this biological response apparently fuels many men's need for very regular sex to feel bonded. Women are wired to bond due to sustained oxytosin after sex and they build on it further with the mind (yes, women can have sealed-off sex, but it's atypical)  I mention this because sex with a loose cannon can be dangerous or helpful....depends on how you play.

The reason for this is because of Vasopressin in men and the fact that women have 10 times the amount of Oxytocin baseline than men do. Where the Oxy in a woman rises immediately after sex / orgasm, in men, vasopressin takes over and actually causes the need for separateness! Men do get a huge rush of Oxy at the exact moment of orgasm, but vassopressin takes over very quickly. Oxy synergizes with estrogen in women; vaso synergizes with testosterone in men!

Here is a link and the explanations:

http://www.darionardi.com/BulletinArt9.html

Vasopressin - Vasopressin is made in the brain. Both men and women make it. However, the male hormone testosterone synergizes with vasopressin – the two greatly enhance each other. A woman and man might have equal levels of vasopressin but the man experiences stronger effects. Physically, vasopressin causes water retention and high blood pressure; high levels may increase forehead size. Personality wise, vasopressin influences male social and sexual behavior, public communication, and paternal behavior. In animals (mammals), it promotes aggression, territorial competition and dominance with other males. It bonds males to mates and children. For men, it also promotes partner recognition, sexual arousal, courtship behavior, monogamy, pair bonding and mate guarding. Vasopressin also improves cognitive ability by enhancing memory. It allows one to feel separate, with dampened emotional responses and more “sensible” or “reasonable” behavior. Depressed people also have higher vasopressin.

Vasotocin is a variation of vasopressin found in fish, birds and frogs. It promotes vocalization, singing, mating calls and territorial behavior. It causes male animals to respond to the sight of attractive females. It is found in the human visual system (pineal gland), and male human bonding tends to be more visual. This might explain why adolescent boys of all types are often preoccupied with images of beautiful potential mates!

Oxytocin Oxytocin is made in the brain. Both women and men make it. However, the female hormone estrogen synergizes with oxytocin – the two greatly enhance each other. A man and women might have equal levels of oxytocin but the woman experiences stronger effects. Physically, oxytocin facilitates childbirth and nursing for women. In both sexes, it increases by five-fold during sex. In men, however, it immediately drops and vasopressin rises sharply right afterward - explaining why men generally feel a sudden sense of separateness! Personality wise, oxytocin promotes touching, affection and bonding. In both men and women it rises instantly with a single touch. Oxytocin also influences female social behavior. It promotes “nesting“; monogamy and pair bonding; the nurturing, acceptance and protection of offspring; and pup-retrieval in animals. It influences mate selection. Many of these effects are confirmed in humans as well as animals. For all its positive benefits, high oxytocin inhibits cognitive ability by impairing learning and memory. It encourages emotional extremes but it also prevents depression.


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