[nah]

I know we always jump back to the MLCer, don't we?  How can we not?

Look at it this way if you are walking down a street and on one side there is a tree growing and on the other side there is a car crash, which story are you going to come home and write about?

[blackice]

Ah - very early on my H did volunteer that he had told OW he loved her. He also wanted to know how it was possible to love two women at the same time.  I realised then - he had a screw loose and told him there could be no comparison between the marital love of 15 years with the fanatsy love of 5 months.

same here. he said he loved us both and it actually was painful for him. then as time went on he said he loved me more and even told ow that he loved me more and she was beneath me. now he says he tells her he loves her to keep her out of his face. he is the one who has always said however how in the world can 20 years compare to a few months, it can't and it never will.

watching and listening to all this has helped me realize even more how she really isn't important and has allowed me to let go of the hold she had on my mindset for so long. once i was able to do that i began to grow and focus more on what i needed to do for myself and let him plug along his path. i know i am really involved in my situation but i am also in an amazing place for myself mentally and i feel good and strong and like i can conquer what ever gets thrown at me from now on. i have been kicked and knocked down and i got back up, and yes i have bruises and scars but i didn't die.

[Searching4Answers]

Great insights everyone

My H falls in line with codependency. I think that this stems from FOO issues for my H. The think that the only way he could deal with his unstable family environment was to form unhealthy attachments.

Now he still sees her - think it's the band aid and soothing behaviour that keeps him attached. Let's put it this way - he has talked of as being stupid, she and her children are dysfunctional and he never told me that she was his soulmate. Ummm H.....you did - several times.

This is what I see in my situation too. Thankfully I have never gotten the 'soulmate' or 'I love her' BS. Mine did tell me that he would eventually have feelings for her - my take on that at the time was that in order to justify the relationship he needed to believe that love could happen. I also got the 'I can love 2 women at the same time' speech - he got angry at me when I called BS on that one. I think that one of the reasons that H keeps the fact that he is still seeing OW a secret is that he is embarrassed by it. He gets very defensive if I bring her up. I use to think that the defensiveness was to 'protect' her but now I think it is to 'protect' himself. He doesn't want to admit what he has become.

Certainly love cannot be transferred, and I think them getting their needs met by someone else is the basis for ILYBINILWY. I think, too, they love us until they begin their PA (for those that have one) and then have to fall out of love with us to justify to themselves. At least, that's how it worked with mine. I don't knowm much about the R with OW, but I'm willing to bet the c-d transferred.

Ditto ditto ditto......Totally agree and mirror this.

Ditto for me too

[Songanddance]

He gets very defensive if I bring her up. I use to think that the defensiveness was to 'protect' her but now I think it is to 'protect' himself. He doesn't want to admit what he has become.

Ditto.

[Medusa]

How does this help the stages of the LBS though?  It helps us see the wheat from the chaff and it also helps our understanding that OW is nothing and he is in crisis.  It also probably helps us understand what co-dependency is as the needs are transferred because  a co-dependent person is needy.

Yes, the c-d person is very needy. They find their identification through someone else.

When my told me he loved OW, I was not surprised and had no reaction beyond thinking he is stupid. I've thought about that conversation a few time since, and them saying they love another person so quickly after becoming involved shows their immaturity. For me this was reinforced when I found his Pro/Con list: her first Pro was that she made his feel "special/unique". Yeah...that's the definition of infatuation. These pieces if information help us process what's happening and move through our stages. The Pro/Con list as a whole reiterated how immature and selfish he is and, whenever I think about it, I know I have no interest in a relationship with this man.

[gillies9]

Op u forgot a stage it's called mlcers reality check be careful what u wish for u may just get it.
Remember star trek fans wanting and having are two different things

[HeartTattoo]

"dependency needs can be transferred, but love cannot be transferred".

He said " I love your mum more than life itself but my friendship ( ) with OW is mutually beneficial for our needs. 

Exactly!  A personalized version of this concept.  Mine said 7 months ago in a rare R talk, "I know now that you loved me, but I found someone who likes me..."  A more "all about me" version.

He said " I love your mum more than life itself but my friendship ( ) with OW is mutually beneficial for our needs. 

Your H knows about his 'needs' - that should at least make it easier for him to understand the work to be done, once he really starts on The Work? Most people, I imagine, aren't even aware of their inner needs, only the pain of them not being met.

If S&D's H thinks the OW is meeting his "needs", he really is not yet in touch with his true needs.  The MLCer looks to the OW, an external source, for his validation, for unquestioning adoration & approval, & for the thrill of illicit sex--all very addicting.  These "highs" mask the pain of depression, low self-esteem, self-hatred.

...they love us until they begin their PA (for those that have one) and then have to fall out of love with us to justify to themselves. 

Yes, I think they do have to convince themselves that they have "fallen out of love" with us in order to justify the "new R".  They must be "in love" to do this lying-cheating-abandonment thing to us.  And then they project this "falling out of love" thing onto us.  What I got was "I thought you didn't love me any more, didn't even like me". 

...I'm willing to bet the c-d transferred.

Absolutely!  The basis really of the MLCer/OP R.  "I'll make you happy, so I can feel happy & you make me happy so you can feel happy" & The Knight in Tarnished Armor syndrome.

I recall another bit from my IC.  He said these R's begun in adultery sometimes "work" if the couple have "balanced dependency"--they are completely wrapped up in each other & have no other interests outside of each other (I pictured the couple walking around wearing matching clothing    ).  Not sticking with this mutual co-dependency may be what ultimately ends these R's, or maybe signals the end of the crisis.  Those that stay stuck may be the ones who can tolerate such suffocating co-dependence or who, in a sick way, find this does meet their needs.

[Songanddance]

Yes, I think they do have to convince themselves that they have "fallen out of love" with us in order to justify the "new R".  They must be "in love" to do this lying-cheating-abandonment thing to us.  And then they project this "falling out of love" thing onto us.  What I got was "I thought you didn't love me any more, didn't even like me". 

Exactly - although mine was " I know you don't love me anymore, I know you have been cheating on me for the last 15 years. I know that you want to end our marriage. " 
When I asked him for proof of this - he said he had none; he had discussed me with OW and was in agreement with her that that was why he had to end this painful marriage of ours.  And then I got her letter 3 weeks later saying the same thing.!!!

[stayed]

Exactly - although mine was " I know you don't love me anymore, I know you have been cheating on me for the last 15 years. I know that you want to end our marriage. " 
When I asked him for proof of this - he said he had none; he had discussed me with OW and was in agreement with her that that was why he had to end this painful marriage of ours.  And then I got her letter 3 weeks later saying the same thing.!!!

Wow, talk about "faulty" thinking... like OW would not have any PERSONAL AGENDA?  She's such a wonderful person, solid character, honest, totally trustworthy... that would be why she is cheating with a MARRIED man.  She just wants to help him get out of such a dastardly, sick, loveless marriage!

Stupid or what eh?

Hugs Stayed

[Blackhen]

I like your 'Reality Check' stage Pascalle.

I pass through it every time he rocks up to cake eat/check his anchor. I'm learning though that the disgust I feel does not necessarily mean I'm done. It just means that he isn't.