[Dji76]

Terrified, if you believe the saying "broken attracts broken" than it is worth understanding why you were drawn to a woman that ws broken. If you think it was just "bad luck" that you married someone who fell apart as your wife did that is a different story. Im not saying you need to fix yourself but I know I sure as sh!t did/do. I wont enter another relationship unitl I'm pretty damn certain I have no desire to fix someone else problems. I'll avoid other fixers and anyone that I think is too desperate for approval. It'll probably be slim pickins out there with those criteria... But I'd rather be alone and happy than mixed up with someone else who has a ton of unresolved issues. Been there, done that, not going back. My current w is the only one who gets a pass and I'm about to put my boundaries in place there as well.

[Dji76]

After reading your follow up TT it sounds like you have worked on yourself! Even if you didnt formally do it through counseling... Its great that you feel good about yourself agian. I feel better about myself than I have in years. Its not about being perfect, IMO its about discovering your self esteem again and knowing you deserve better than what your MLCer is trying to put you through. At least thats how i see it.

[OldPilot]

  Sorry, I have a problem with this.  If its about HER, why do we need to "fix" us?  The logic doesn't work.

I am NOT saying I am perfect, not by any stretch.  We ALL can do things to improve ourselves whether we are an MLCer, LBSer, or a happily married person who is lucky enough to never having gone through this.  There is ALWAYS room for self improvement.  But you can't say "its not your fault, you did nothing to cause this" out of one side of the mouth and say "you need to fix yourself" out of the other.

I STILL have not got that part since day 1.

-T

Because we are the only ones that we can control,
we can not control or fix anyone else.

Rugged Endurance sorry you think I am cherry picking, I happen to agree with your whole post.

[terrified_in_TN]

THANK YOU DJ!!!  I will admit, a lot of this would have never come about were it not for my wife's MLC.  I said it in another thread (forget which), there actually have been *some* positives to come from it, as horrible as this whole experience has been.  The start of her replay ended my wallowing that I have been doing for YEARS.

-T

[Mad Hatter]

For once in my life, I LIKE ME.  I am a good person.  What I am not:  Perfect.  If you expect perfect to have a successful r, move on, I am not your guy.  If you want an honest caring person who won't stray, and will not run away when things get tough (within reason, I am not putting up with this MLC bs again-life is too short), them I am your man.

Its great that you feel good about yourself again. I feel better about myself than I have in years. Its not about being perfect, IMO its about discovering your self esteem again and knowing you deserve better than what your MLCer is trying to put you through. At least thats how i see it.

These hit the nail on the head and describes where I am!

I have "found myself" again; I am back to what I was in the beginning. Somewhere along the way, I settled into something I was not and have realized it was eating me up! I have rediscovered who & what I am.

I am not perfect nor will I ever be, but for the first time in a long time, I feel like ME again! I like who I am, I know I am good enough, I know I am attractive, I know my own self-worth! Sorry for the crisis, wish it would have been different, but I don't have to stick around; that's my choice to make and no one can judge me for it!

Like TITN said, If you are looking for Mr. Perfect, keep on moving, If you like what you see, we will give it a try and see where it goes. Accept me for who I am and I will be honest, caring and faithful. I'll work together with someone who puts in the effort! But I am not putting up with games, manipulation or shyt tests; all others need not let the door smack their fanny on the way out!

-EDIT-

P.S.: If you're one of those women that has to have your hair & nails done every week and needs 100+ pairs of shoes, and can't shop for a sale or wear non-name brand, then keep on moving Ms. High Maintenance!

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I'm going to cherry pick because I think it's confusing to refer to something that was written four or five posts back without referring to it in the new post. I come from the academic world where we cite our sources and try to maintain a logical flow of ideas. It you don't like my cherry picking you don't have to read my post.

Terrified, if you believe the saying "broken attracts broken" than it is worth understanding why you were drawn to a woman that ws broken.

This is the best explanation I've read regarding why we need to fix ourselves. TBH, that's always confused me as well but what DJ said here makes sense. But I don't think it's always true. When my wife and I got together we were both broken, having both come from similar abusive homes. But over the 35 years of our marriage I've been in therapy a couple of times, have attended Al-Anon for the past three years, went through an MLT, and have read numerous self help books. My wife has done none of that. I think my wife is going through an MLC because she needs to fix herself. I think my wife is with the OM she is with because he is just as broken as she is, maybe even more so, whereas I am not. I no longer complete her because I am not as broken as she is. I think I am able to stand because I've already done a lot of work on myself. Doesn't mean I'm perfect but it doesn't mean I'm doomed unless I FIX myself either.

This is where most men differ from women; when we have had enough and it is time to draw the line, we cut out the emotions and use an almost complete logical process. We won't wait around and for the most part, once we make a decision, it's a done deal!

I believe most of the men and women on this site that are standing follow a very logical thought process that allows them to view the MLC as a process their spouse is going through that is about their spouse and is not about them. They are able to rationally accept that their spouse will be out of control for a while and may not ever return because that's what happens when somebody goes through an MLC. And they are able to make the logical decision to accept that because they love their spouse.

I believe most of those who do not find this site or who choose not to stand are making that decision because they can't let go of their pride, their hurt feelings, their ego, their anger, or their fear. They can't accept their spouse is sleeping with somebody else or is living with somebody else or is drinking and partying or spending money recklessly and is engaging in thrill seeking behaviors. Why not? A logical understanding of MLC explains that this is what they do and it explains why they do it. I can understand cutting your losses and not wasting your life waiting for somebody but isn't that an emotional response driven by impatience, loneliness, fear? I'm not saying it's wrong, I just don't believe it's completely driven by logic.

I do believe that some people choose not to stand and it is a logical decision for them. I know of some who post on HS who have realized that their spouse has had issues all along that won't be resolved by the MLC, usually long standing personality disorders, and they've chosen not to continue a relationship with that person. That seems quite rational to me. Regardless, I'm not here to judge. It makes no difference to me whether somebody's choice to stand or not stand is rational or emotional. Each of us has to live with our choices. But I don't think it's a female=emotional, male=rational thing. Basic personality theory states there is a continuum between logical and intuitive (feeling) based decision making. Nowhere does it say that men are at one end of the spectrum and women at the other.

My .02 worth.

[terrified_in_TN]

Something else I thought I'd throw in as to why I think MH maybe right and we tend to end our stand more so than women:

I had my own little MLC in 2009.  Although a one sided EA, which admittedly is worse, I never went into a PA.  Looking back, I guess there were times I might have tested the waters to see if I was attractive and could land in a PA.  Never could follow through.  Came to the realization no matter how much desire I had to "sew those wild oats", I was not the type to stray.  Ended up a wallower.

BUT...I recognize that the one-sided EA was a CHOICE.  Yes, I may have been influenced by hormones, or emotions, or those hidden inhibitions that were trying to break free, but no matter what excuse I try and come up with, the fact of the matter is it was a conscious DECISION, period.  A bad one, but a decision none-the-less.  I wasn't being controlled by zombies; I wasn't under the influence of space aliens.  So slice it up however you want to, it was a choice that I made.

I feel exactly the same about my wife.  Sure, she might be influenced by hormones, you can blame it on the MLC, the menopause that is right around the corner, but no matter what...it was a concious decision of hers to leave me for OM.  No amount of "it wasn't my fault, I wasn't myself" will convince me otherwise.

-T

[patience.of.a.saint]

This is where most men differ from women; when we have had enough and it is time to draw the line, we cut out the emotions and use an almost complete logical process. We won't wait around and for the most part, once we make a decision, it's a done deal!

So, if our MLCer has said he is done, not coming back, not going to beg to return, is it truly a done deal? I ask because mine gives off all the signals that say he is NOT done, has NOT taken all his things and left completely, and even though he probably won't beg, he sure hints a lot. Or does this not apply because he is in MLC?

Also, referencing back to the STFU sentiment, (which would've been nice to know a good 20 years ago, but nobody tells us these things), what DO you guys want to hear from us or talk about? For instance, my MLCer will ask what I have planned for the day or what am I doing, which to me, seems like he wants to chat a bit, but maybe not?? Should my reply be one or two words and be done? Does he REALLY want to know or is the answer supposed to be something more exciting?

Sorry if that's too many questions for following the STFU rule...just want to prevent more mistakes and learn from what I may have inadvertently done wrong in the past.

[terrified_in_TN]

This is where most men differ from women; when we have had enough and it is time to draw the line, we cut out the emotions and use an almost complete logical process. We won't wait around and for the most part, once we make a decision, it's a done deal!

So, if our MLCer has said he is done, not coming back, not going to beg to return, is it truly a done deal?...

I'm sure MH will chime back in, but I think he was referring more to the LBS male spouse.  Once we have had enough of the BS, WE turn off that emotional switch, and is pretty much a done deal.

In other words, as has been said many times....*MOST* of the time, it is up to the LBS when the MLCer decides to return or not as to whether r will take place.  I think in a lot of cases, male "LBSes" become "DONE" more often than not.  Even RCR says in one of her articles, many times the LBS gives up months into a years long process.

-T

[Dji76]

Patience - I have no idea if a man in MLC means what he says. For myself, I'm not wasting much more time with w's crisis. She knows where to find me if she ever gets it together. I may or may not be available or interested if that happens... Not my problem. I know this is not my "real" w but this is the real world where actions have consequences. She has violated the very essence of our marriage by cheating so that old relationship no longer exists anyways. Ending it is the best way for me to move on.

BIB - My situation was similar. As i grew and worked through my issues I was looking for a deeper connection with my w. More than the "American dream" of $, house, cars, and material stuff. Funny thing is when I started seeking those things from her she started pulling away. Maybe it frightened her, maybe she doesnt know how to love like that, maybe she just didnt want that with me. Whatever the case she is in crisis and I'm emerging from the shadow of her crisis with a better understanding of who I am.