[hawk]

Those are good points Hawk, and probably part of this but again and again, I have to ask myself why the excessive cruelty and disrespect?  My H could have just moved out and ended the marriage but he moved 30 min away to the area we had always wanted to live in but it was too expensive.  He spends maybe 3 hours a week with our girls.  Before he moved out I dealt with finding a box of condoms in the car I take my kids to school in(on Christmas Day), his dating sites, and emails from OW1.  Most people on here have far worse thrown in their faces.  They could sow their wild oats with much less damage.

Yeah , l know there's so much of that here to bipo and that l personally think is pure and simple true mlc , full on .
l don't understand that cruelty either although l can tell in some of it, it's probably pent up resentment and maybe the lbs was just not really in tune to the way they'd effected him or her over years and years.
But so many are as you say to and l reckon that is pure mlc.

Mine was reasonably heartless , l don't know if l would call it cruel , stupid maybe but nowhere near as bad as most here.
But really , l couldn't have blamed her because l'd very carelessly hurt her so much anyway .
l won't go into it now but l had basically done the same thing stupidly earlier and other things

But you are right and l'm not saying l get those ones at all accept for in some case but, sure many others had none of those excuses , they just went off their tree.
l don't know how they can do but then , l was nearly as bad but at least l didn't realize how bad l was hurting her or want to hurt her. With a lot of these it's like they want to .

[terrified_in_TN]

... I have to ask myself why the excessive cruelty and disrespect? ...

  I can't speak for your sitch, and honestly may not have a clue about mine either, but looking back-I think spouse wanted an "amicable" split, to remain cordial, and "be friends".  A "mutual" break up is SO much easier to justify.  But when I "fought back" to save my marriage, then things "HAD" to get nasty, so I would eventually hate her, which would make her leaving justified.  But who wants to have a mutual "break up" when you have over 20 years invested.  Anyway, now that is pretty much where we are (although I don't "HATE" her-just wished either this had never happened, or at the very least I would have married someone else).

-T

[Thunder]

hawk,

I think what you said makes a lot of sense.  I can understand it must be hard for men, probably harder for men.  It takes a lot of courage and love to stay married to your spouse and not stray. 
I guess I never really wanted another man.  My H always excited me.

I think in the end my H was looking around, but he did divorce me before he did anything.  Well, tried to do anything.  At least he had enough morals left to do that.  He can never be labeled a cheater.

[Thunder]

nah, the world wouldn't have been ready for 2 of us.   

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I agree with what nah said about her life pre-BD. I'm visually oriented and I've always enjoyed the sight of a pretty girl, I still do. But I never had any interest in being with anyone other than my wife. Even now 9 months after BD, with my wife telling me I should, I still am not interested in someone else. But I never lost my attraction for my wife. When we married she was slim and pretty, later she put on some weight, recently she lost some of the weight, and the whole time I found her enormously attractive.  And for me sex without the emotional connection doesn't seem very attractive but I guess I'm just weird. Or maybe it's  because I haven't tried it. It seems kind of sad to me, though. No offense to those who enjoy it.

And I believe that it was the same for my wife until this MLC started. And, even then, I have reason to believe the OM aggressively pursued her. I think she thought she was engaged in a harmless flirtation and he quickly moved it to a point she didn't expect and didn't want. And I think two things happened at that point. One is that she became infatuated and she  had no real experience because she was so young when we got together so she thought she had something special with him. And the second thing, and I think this is what applies now, 9 months later, is that she has to keep telling herself that there was a good reason for blowing her marriage and family apart so, even if the OM isn't the love of her life, she must not have been in love with me any more.

Or maybe I'm in denial. But I know what we had for 36 years and it was real so I believe she's in a crisis and so do the people I've discussed this with.

[terrified_in_TN]

Another quick point-Hawk touched on this earlier...

Why do we warn our children NOT to get married so young.  Serious, WHY exactly do we tell our children that?

For ME, my spouse got pregnant at 18 by first h.  Its not that she had a bad life or anything.  Actually, things were pretty good.  BUT...she missed out on a LOT.  Unfortunately, I see my oldest SS following in her footsteps.  He married the woman he lost his virginity to.  My SDIL has done it ALL.  She got all that nonesense out of the way at a young age.  Drugs, drinking, sex, you name it.  SS was a "homebody" and a gamer.  A little TMI, but she actually gave him two STDs.  Now in his mid 20s with a baby, and career not really established yet.  Although he has an okay job, chances are he won't finish college, and just continue on the path that is laid out in front of him without really taking the reins.  He maintains he is content, and has no desire to "better himself".  He is happy with his situation and doesn't subscribe to the need to better himself financially (on one hand, good for him for ignoring the "keep up with the Joneses" mentality, on the other you need to plan for later in life!).

I suspect once he hits midlife and has about 15-20 years behind him, he is going to feel he missed out on a lot, forgetting that it was HIS choice to begin with.

-T

[hawk]

Just on the marrying so young thing . l know it's a terrible way to think of it but l just don;t think it has a hope , especially these days. Maybe our grandparents days and maybe a rare few these days but over all.

And just on the interest thing ,l have heard of some guys , even you B, that could stay with one women forever .
Even one of my brothers can too yet he comes from the same blood l do . As far as l know he's still very happily married.
The other brother though and of course same blood , he's always been in a very bad way , he has some how kept he's marriage together though none the less but l think they may even have an agreement l'd suspect or there is no way he would have made it.

[terrified_in_TN]

But exactly why NOT hawk?  (I do agree with you).

I didn't mention my other SS, who also, despite my and spouses warnings got married young as well.

I kind of don't get it-it seems that to the younger generation, marriage is "obsolete" according to what I have read (and I somewhat agree), yet 2 out of 2 of my adult children chose to go ahead and tie that knot...I didn't understand the rush to get married, and I still don't.

Hawk you spoke of our grandparents era-I can't go that far back, but I look at my own parents who are older than normal for my age.  I can tell they didn't have a happy marriage at all by the time I was coming up.  Yet, they chose to stay married.  D wasn't an option.  I assume it was a unspoken mutual decision to stay married.  Knowing my mom, it was because of financial stability/security.  Not sure about my dad-guess he just didn't have an interest in woman at that age in life; his later years was complicated by all sorts of medical issues.

We don't speak about it, but its kind of interesting to hear my mom talk about my dad now-nothing but fond memories, how great of a guy he was.  There is the occasional negative, but since he past away a long time ago, its mostly positive talk now.

The human mind is such a weird organ.

-T

-EDIT-  I probably should not say this, but I can't help but wonder how Sunny's x/h is going to remember her a few years down the road.

[Searching4Answers]

And l was worried sick about sex having to be forever tbh and the guilt killed me. l never stopped loving my w but l needed a change sexually. l'm not sure what the answer is if you wanna stay married.

Early on in my H's MLC I brought up separating for a while and he couldn't see why I would do this. I realized that he needed to work some things out and that was why he found the OW but the reason that I suggested separation was to preserve our relationship. I knew that the OW was about sex and I am not hung up on the sex part - it is the emotional ties that they form that kill me. I wanted him to do what he needed to do and get on with it. I was very supportive in the beginning until I realized that he didn't care what kind of damage he was doing to me.

My H has thus far not said that he was unhappy and that is the thing that gets me. He expected me to wait around and let him come and go as he pleased until he got bored with OW. He was very happy cake eating I finally had to put a stop to it for both of our sakes. The way that the MLCer goes about this is mind boggling! Fine, he wants to go out and screw everything that moves - go but why try to stay in a relationship with the me. Just end it and do what you want - I wouldn't have lost so much respect for him if he had done that but instead he drags it out for 2 years.

Pixie made a comment about how the MLCer projects how they feel on to us - projection has been one of the harder things for me to recognize but I think that I am getting better

Yes I was his mirror for a long time. The one he projected his own feelings on to. The way he treated me was the way he felt about treating himself. NOW, he only has himself to do these things to.

This was an 'aha' moment for me - thankfully he is projecting onto OW now In a letter that OW wrote to H she says that she can't figure out why she is with someone that loathes her! He really loathes himself - her letter was actually very insightful about H's projections. I could have very easily written what she wrote at one time.

[hawk]

Well ,l just think for one thing T ,  if a guy hasn't sown some oats and good, he won't have a hope of lasting the distance - and probably the girl either these days. They seem to regret it just as much , just takes 20yrs to hit them.
And now in our days here , now , the media , the expectations , the sex sex sex , me me me , added to what's out there ;
And then like you said , the mentality too , it's a different world now. l hate to think where marriages are going to end up.

My mum and dad both always talked that way about each other too yet they had a lot of extremely rough years .
In the end , they sorta stayed together , or you could say sorta got back together and lasted 55yrs.

l guess we could assume yeah , some of the older people did have unhappy marriages and resentment but stayed bc that's what they do.
But there's no way we could think all of them and l dunno if you ever listen to them but they all say we're all pretty damn weak these days and l know mine , and ex's , put us to shame.
Yeah we had some stuff for sure , but both ours went through 10x what we did and they've lasted.

And even in mine , yes l effed up really bad , but l did turn , and all ex had to do was have some faith and give that a chance , that's it . And we would have turned the corner and grown old together.

But no one does that now , they all rush of and get divorced.
l said to her , if you were our mums and dads , even her sister , and we would get through this and grow old together just like they have . All ya gotta do is put on the big girl panties and we 'll survive.
She said that's what she was doing but l said bs, your quitting that's what your doing .