[kikki]

It would seem that there are many triggers for MLC, but I took the article to mean that if they had untreated ADD/ADHD, that they would eventually have a MLC, not that all MLCers have ADD. There are also many adults out there who have it and do not know they do because so many people think it is just a focus thing. There are also the people who think it's overdiagnosed and don't want to believe that it even IS a thing. I have read several books on it and just from that amount of reading, I can spot them from a mile away...kind of like we can all spot a MLCer from a mile away now. I would guess that there are more ADD spouses here than you think. They are just undiagnosed and probably not as ADD as mine is.

I would agree Patience.o.a.s - Looking back, I do believe my H showed signs of ADD too, but was undiagnosed.  I remember discussing it with him many years before BD, and he didn't want to know about it.  It showed to me in his ever increasing work obsession and distractability.

The official symptoms of ADHD, as diagnosed by doctors, primarily include inattention and/or
hyperactivity and impulsivity.
Adults also can have ADHD; up to half of adults diagnosed with the
disorder had it as children. As ADHD persists into adulthood, symptoms
change. For example, hyperactivity may turn to restlessness;
impulsiveness may turn to risk-taking; and distraction may turn to
overwhelm. As a result, adults with ADHD often have problems with
interpersonal relationships and employment.

ADHD is now the most commonly studied and diagnosed psychiatric
disorder in children and adolescents. Addressing this modern challenge,
new discoveries about the brain have been made that can benefit everyone
at all ages and stages of life. With advanced technology, researchers have
found that the brains of children with ADHD are actually different from
children without ADHD.
It is a real condition.

Yet, with so much research, there is still much confusion. The term
itself prevents many parents and adults from recognizing or relating to this
condition. In some ways the term ADHD (Attention-Deficit Hyperactive
Disorder) is actually very misleading. The list of common symptoms is often
varied and even contradictory and as we will explore later, many symptoms
are yet to be defined. While some children are distracted and disorganized,
others are restless and impulsive and some are both.
In most cases, there is not an actual deficit of attention at all. Instead,
there is an inability to allocate attention appropriately. ADHD children that
are inattentive, distracted or “spaced out” are unable to allocate their
attention to what their teachers are saying; instead they are focused on a
daydream. Other ADHD children that are hyperactive, impulsive or restless
are also unable to focus on the teacher but for different reasons. They are
simply not that interested in what the teacher is saying. They would rather
be somewhere else. They can’t sit still in class but they can certainly sit still
in front of a TV or video game.


If this all above in bold is not a descriptor of the bizarre behaviours of replay, then I don't know what is.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

There is some interesting information in this article about MPD regarding how memories are stored during early childhood in the presence of trauma, chronic stress, and disassociation.

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro99/web3/Sancar.html

[kikki]

That is really interesting MBIB.  More information than the dissociative articles we've posted before.

My MLCer has said to me on a few occasions that he's a completely different person 'over here' (in his new life, while talking to me on the phone).

When in person, he often uses 'we' extensively.  He seems to have zero sense of self.

[patience.of.a.saint]

The official symptoms of ADHD, as diagnosed by doctors, primarily include inattention and/or
hyperactivity and impulsivity.
Adults also can have ADHD; up to half of adults diagnosed with the
disorder had it as children. As ADHD persists into adulthood, symptoms
change. For example, hyperactivity may turn to restlessness;
impulsiveness may turn to risk-taking; and distraction may turn to
overwhelm. As a result, adults with ADHD often have problems with
interpersonal relationships and employment.

I am not sure if any of this changed in my MLCer. He was not hyperactive then or now...more like an unmotivated slug. He is impulsive AND a risk taker, and from the stories I've heard, always has been. He is distracted easily. And, I learned really fast to keep him out of crowds because he'd get so overwhelmed, which in turn, would make him so mad. Oddly enough, he has kept the same job for over 15 years, where many ADDers do not. His lack of motivation keeps him there, even though he does not like it. He even works a ton of overtime to get the big paycheck to justify working at a job he dislikes.

I've always thought the ADD + MLC combo was quite the double whammy, but it makes perfect sense to me that the undiagnosed ADD would lead to the MLC. Too bad nobody hands out a manual on the other person when you decide they are the one for you. You end up writing the manual on them instead.

[patience.of.a.saint]

I absolutely agree, patience.  I definitely feel it was a contributing factor for my own breakdown, but had never been diagnosed.  As a kid there were many parent/teacher conferences to discuss how I was a bright kid who "spaced out" during class a lot, and I remember being very frustrated by it - would try to concentrate but before I knew it the teacher would be talking and I'd lost a few minutes in a daydream.  As I got older I would beat myself up over not meeting goals because of distractions - but it felt very compulsive.  I am clearer minded now than I have ever been and can easily get lost in an activity where I lose hours (in a good way).  I have a very solid and stable nutritional regime including supplements and whole foods, meditation time, and exercise.  Couldn't do it without that.  Even taking one day off, I start to revert back.

I am somewhat the same way. I can remember days of being in class and having no idea what the teacher said because I doodled and daydreamed. I just read it later and was fine. I graduated 3rd in my class so apparently I worked with it. I can totally get lost in a task for hours, called hyperfocus. I know I do it, especially if I am researching something. Buying something with reviews kicks the hyperfocus into days and days of reading. If I get on a subject, I will need to read every single book I can find, but I don't remember most of it in detail because my brain kicks into overdrive when I read. I don't medicate for it, but am aware of when I start to drift or hyperfocus and those are my biggest ADD issues. I will use caffeine if I really need to focus, like on driving, but mostly, I go with good food and supplements.

[kikki]

I am somewhat the same way. I can remember days of being in class and having no idea what the teacher said because I doodled and daydreamed.

I'm a little bit the same Ready and patience. 
Big time on the day dream spectrum would be my mother and our eldest son. 

I wonder whether the childhood trauma needs to also be a part of the picture of MLC and this all adds up to making the brain less resilient, hence the MLC?

[MyBrainIsBroken]

This is just a working hypothesis so it's pretty thin but I'm starting to think something happens during early childhood such as ongoing abuse, trauma, or chronic stress related to undiagnosed conditions like dyslexia or add/adhd. This causes dissociation to occur as a coping mechanism and results in fractured memory storage during dissociation. This fracturing results in the feelings and emotions being stored without a connection to specific details, rendering them inaccessible by the conscious mind.

At some point a trigger occurs that causes these fractured memories to begin surfacing. The self tries to integrate these memories but the ego resists, leading to denial, chronic stress, depression, and brain chemistry and structure changes. This begins the MLC process of Escape and Avoid with Replay actions to self-medicate.

Some more interesting articles. The third article discusses the theory that excessive amounts of the stress hormone cortisol may have a shrinking effect on the development of the hippocampus, leaving the person more vulnerable to depression due to having fewer serotonin receptors.

What Are Traumatic Memories?
http://www.sidran.org/resources/for-survivors-and-loved-ones/what-are-traumatic-memories/

Dissociation Isn't a Life Skill
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/pathological-relationships/201211/dissociation-isnt-life-skill

Causes of Depression
http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/causes-depression

[kikki]

I'm liking the hypothesis MBIB.

This causes dissociation to occur as a coping mechanism and results in fractured memory storage during dissociation. This fracturing results in the feelings and emotions being stored without a connection to specific details, rendering them inaccessible by the conscious mind.

Explaining the amnesiac style attitude towards us from our MLCers

The last straw appears to potentially be the mid life changing hormones, which they know can cause depression as per your article and reduced blood flow to the prefrontal cortex and reliance on other areas of the brain.

The perfect storm.

[Wounded Bird]

MBIB: I think you are on to something. I can relate much of what you say to my H. Thanks for explaining that.

[Anjae]

The third article discusses the theory that excessive amounts of the stress hormone cortisol may have a shrinking effect on the development of the hippocampus, leaving the person more vulnerable to depression due to having fewer serotonin receptors.

Yes. Excessive amounts of the stress hormone cortisol (normally combined with adrenaline) also leave the amygdala in overdrive and a person is in continuous fight of flight mode. That, for me, is a big part of the MLC mania/depression.

Sometimes I used to daydream in class. Mostly when classes were boring and I already knew the subjects. But I also manage to know what the teacher was saying. Doubt there is anything wrong with normal daydreaming.

Ego is a word I leave out. It is not from the domain of pure neuroscience. It is from psychotherapy. Even if I found the board my googling Jung + MLC, I separate things. One thing is pure neuroscience, the other the poetic, dreamy, Jungian theory (Freud is far less poetic of dreamy).

I don't see so much disassociation. More a mimic of bipolar, and, at times, psychotic. As said in one of the articles, dissociation is a normal coping mechanism. Our MLCer were not suffering form dissociation for 20, 30 or more years. They may be using it during MLC as a coping mechanism, but they do not suffer from a full blown dissociative disorder.

Many things in the brain could explain the loss of memory. Or in the body. Tiredness being one of them. It may also be a protective mechanism in order to allow the MLCer to survive the crisis.