[Velika]

Has anyone looked into the possibility of mini strokes in this brain region? (E.g. "silent strokes.")

I'm wondering because I was out of town and returned to a completely different H. But I have read accounts of people saying their spouse changed "over night."

Has anyone experienced this? Like fine one day, not the next?

I guess if you look at the stages of grief, forming theories is a type of bargaining. But I do feel that many of us have witnessed radical changes to the whole personality, not just the spouse's urgent desire to leave.

[Velika]

Actually I am not entirely sure my xH isn't FTD. The personality change is quite profound. He is 4 years in, I suppose that with time I will eventually be certain one way or the other.

Had you suspected this? Is he in decline still?

[Anjae]

Great article, Velika.

I think that there is far more than just the Frontotemporal Lobe at play in MLC. For a start, there is the huge release of cortisol (stress) and how it affects the pituitary gland. Then it is necessary to factor, adrenaline and other out of order hormones, the effects those provoke in the brain and body, other parts of the brain that are affected, etc.

And the other thing to remember is that, often, MLC is temporary. So far, dementia, personality and some mood disorder (well, all but for depression, depending of the type), are not. They are permanent. MLC seems to go away once the MLCer is out of crisis.

I doubt that all male MLCers are in andropause. I don't think that applies to MLCers in their mid 30's. I know testosterone starts to decay earlier than mid 30's, but that is not the same as andropause.

Does testosterone play a part in MLC? It is possible. We do not know how the levels of most MLCer are before, during, and after crisis. We know their stress level at BD is huge, and it remains very high during the crisis.

As for female MLCers, menopause also does not seem to always be the factor. Like the male ones, some female MLCers are only in their mid 30's.

Something is going on. That is for sure. And that something is very related to high stress levels. Other than that, none of us knows much more. Some of us, like myself, did some neuroscience short courses.

We learned a lot, but there are so many things to take in, the brain, and the body are very complex. I'm not certain that, with our current knowledge, we can say exactly what causes MLC. But I maintain stress is a big factor.

I think I would exclude mini strokes. Not saying they do not happen to some MLCers, or that they do not happen during the crisis, but that does not seem to be what leads a person into MLC.

I have merged the threads. The current  Biochemistry, neurotransmitters and brain research has not reached its limit.

[Velika]

Thanks Anjae!

Here is some info on strokes if anyone is interested. Again, I would love to know if anyone witnessed a real day/night change in MLCer. (I can't say because I wasn't in the country.) This is pretty shocking!

Silent Stroke, What You Need to Know, via Web MD
http://www.webmd.com/stroke/silent-stroke-you-need-to-know

"A study of middle-aged people with no apparent signs of stroke found that about 10% had brain damage from one."

Can Personality Improve After a Stroke? via Scientific American
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-personality-improve-after-a-stroke/

"Friends and relatives may report a personality change that is hard to pin down. Some of these changes, such as low mood and anxiety, are more likely to be related to a person's feelings about having a stroke than to any harm to the brain. A genuine shift may occur, however, when the frontal lobes sustain damage. The frontal lobes play an essential role in regulating emotion, decision making and judgment. Strokes that affect the frontal lobes can lead to a range of problems, such as apathy or emotionalism (an overflow of emotion without necessarily feeling that emotion)."

"A stroke that hits the cerebellum can also trigger a personality shift. This brain region is vital to many aspects of executive function. Damage here can bring about disinhibition, which often manifests as inappropriate behavior. Other “negative” personality changes include poor decision making, aggression and irritability."

Some Antidepressants May Raise Stroke Risk
http://www.webmd.com/stroke/news/20121017/some-antidepressants-stroke-risk

"Overall, he says, "the additional bleeding risk is 1 per 10,000 people treated with SSRIs for one year."

(Of interest to me because both my husband's and sister in law's MLC kicked off while on an antidepressant.)

Stress, Depression May Boost Stroke Risk
http://consumer.healthday.com/mental-health-information-25/anxiety-news-33/stress-depression-may-boost-stroke-risk-study-finds-689675.html

"The study found that depression seemed to raise the risk of a stroke or a transient ischemic attack (TIA) by 86 percent. It also found that stress apparently raised stroke or TIA risk by 59 percent. And hostility doubled the risk, the researchers said. A TIA is a mini-stroke caused by a temporary blockage of blood flow to the brain."

[kikki]

The day/night change is the reason why it's called Bomb Drop.  It comes completely out of the blue.
Some of us could feel some detachment in the weeks/months prior to BD, but not all. I kept asking my MLCer what was going on.  He was silent or said that nothing at all was a problem.  Next thing BD, and he was apparently leaving.  (He stayed on the sofa for the next 5 months before actually leaving).

As calamity said, most of us have experienced the shark eyes.  Dead and dull.  Can't remember where I found it but the eyes apparently indicate brain function. (or lack of it).

A bit long winded, but explains that males can suffer exactly the same symptoms at mid life, as women do during menopause. 
Also, instead of a natural decline, stress can lead to a huge drop in testosterone - which then has a domino effect on the whole biochemistry of the body. 
http://holyhormones.com/mens-health/andropause/menalive-author-jed-diamond-phd-supporting-men-and-the-women-who-love-them-on-holy-hormones-honey-october-8/


previous thread: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1786.0

other neuroscience/neurochemestry threads:

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1522.0

http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3669.0

[kikki]

https://www.ted.com/talks/paul_zak_trust_morality_and_oxytocin?language=en

The moral molecule - oxytocin

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23441.Heroes_Rogues_and_Lovers
Testosterone and behaviour

[Velika]

Wow, so my sister accidentally ran into my H last night and commented that he had strange circles around his eyes. I have mentioned on my own thread about how my H's eyes look "off" and I have seen this over and over again on other threads. I looked at his eyes again today and realized yes there is something strange about the eyes. Not just the flat look I see at times but the circles under them.

I then remembered reading about palsy to extraocular muscles eyes due to oxygen starvation from small strokes. This can be very obvious but it can also be minor. Sometimes it corrects and sometimes it is permanent. Not to introduce a controversial topic about this, but there was a doctor who researched vaccine injury and Gulf War illness and was able to demonstrate through before/after photos how muscles changed around the eyes. (If you are interested you can see here: http://healthimpactnews.com/2015/dr-andrew-moulden-learning-to-identify-vaccine-damage/. I don't want to start a discussion on vaccine damage but this is the only place I could find this research.)

The photos are striking and some remind me a little of my husband's eyes. He doesn't have an obvious palsy but there are subtle changes.

For me, this is very sad. My husband was a truly loving, funny, affectionate guy. How sad to think that what we are calling MLC is in fact a very tragic illness and possibly even a stroke. I guess the stroke theory might also explain why some recover and some do not. (As I know spontaneous recovery from a stroke is possible.)

Anyhow, I am sure I am not the only MLC conspiracy theorist on this board (I have had quite a number of theories posted to my own thread), so I wanted to share.

[Anjae]

The dead eyes come with the depression. Once the depression lifts the eyes go back to normal. Former MLCers do not have the dead, or shark, eyes.

And current MLCers, can, at times, have their eyes go back to normal for a while.

The circles under the eyes are most likely tiredness and/or lack of sleep.

I think you are trying to grab to the small strokes view, but that does not match what we know happens to MLCers. If the case of their dead eyes was small strokes, then the eyes would never change back to normal. And they do.

MLC is a tragic event. It is probably a illness, albeit a temporary one. That is what you need to remember, it is temporary. When it ends, people go back to normal. A thing that would not happen with mini strokes, dementia or a mental illness. With mental illnesses, depending of the severity and if the person is, or is not being treated, the person can go back to look normal, but the illness is still there.

There are former MLCers in the board. They have got back to normal after their MLC.

Here is a thread about the  dead eyes: http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3630.0 - Dead Eye Look- what is it?

And one about MLC and the Medical Community http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=3602.0

[Ready2Transform]

Going to agree with both of you, in a sense. I think V's research is good. There are some of us (and I know I'm preaching to the choir with you, Anjae, as you've been deep into the study yourself) who heal and focus by finding the possible paths "why" this happened. I was definitely, and continue to be, one of those people. I could have never just said, "Oh, it's MLC" and left it at that.

I know what V is referring to with the shark eyes and the circles (and I think she probably knows the difference between someone who has tired circles and something different). Even if it's just depression that causes the shark eyes, there's a chemical reason behind that. There's always deeper to go. It's interesting, if nothing else (so long as you're not trying to force a diagnosis on the MLCer, as they are grown and must pick a path of healing for themselves).

But I agree with Anjae too that this is likely temporary for most, from the anecdotal evidence we have here. Mine was diagnosed bipolar and I have mixed feelings on that (as did he, at least the last time we talked about it), but if that's really the case, it's not temporary, but it is treatable. But he has to be in charge of that, and after almost five years, it's so much easier than it was in year one to keep my hands, and my thoughts, off of it. But that's a process, too.

I liked this article and saved it in my bookmarks because one of my eyes has gone a little weird since my crisis, and I sometimes still see the asymmetrical appearance of that eye and one corner of my lip in pictures. It's not as noticeable in normal conversation, I'm told, but my Dad has asked me in pictures why I make a certain face and I'm not doing anything but looking square on. It was more pronounced several years ago, though, and I'm now remembering around 2008/2009 I had my first tetanus booster in many years. Makes me wonder if there is a link. Not going to obsess on it, but certainly, it's worth digging into a little more.

[Velika]

Thank you Anjae and R2T. I find these discussions so interesting and once again think of all the intelligent, curious people on this forum who I think are truly on to something about this umbrella category we call MLC.

Sometimes I think that there are a lot of things going on on this forum, and some people are having a true identity crisis, others a type of PTSD, some personality disorder, some affair, and/or others neurological/chemical. There are probably even a few who were truly unhappy and walked away, barring any other changes.

I think there are some people who come out of it and some people who will likely never come out of it. I would suspect in the latter category, if the person was truly nice and the crisis entails a total personality shift or got progressively worse, something more serious has happened — like a stroke or dementia.

R2T, there is a fantastic documentary that you should watch called Trace Amounts. The film is very well made, many respected top-level scientists interviewed. It was made by a man who had a reaction to (like you) first tetanus vaccine he had in many years. He eventually traced the reaction to the mercury still used in it, which has been known for decades to be hazardous at parts per billion.

If your crisis followed a tetanus shot, this documentary might convince you that you may have had an adverse vaccine reaction and not a psychological breakdown: http://traceamounts.com/

My husband did not to my knowledge have a recent vaccine. He is on an SSRI that he started last winter. But I do know someone who suffered a mini stroke after getting a flu vaccine for the first time in years.