[Thundarr]

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/09/17/olympian-turned-escort-suzy-favor-hamiltonys-drug-mental-disorder-led-to/?intcmp=hpff

I read and watched this with three words in mind - Oh. My. God.  XW had started on Zoloft a few months before BD and for the first few months of 2011 would definitely fit the definition of hyper-sexualized as she wanted it multiple times every day and waited up for me to get home at night and then kept me up half the night.  We had fooled around about 8 times the day before I caught her at lawyer boy's office!  TMI, I know, but it totally fits with the side effects of taking Zoloft when someone has Bipolar Disorder.  I can't decide whether I needed this today or if it was the last thing that I needed, but I've already texted XW to ask if she is still taking it.  If so it's prescribed by a PCP and hopefully I can at least warn her about "possible health risks" enough that she gets evaluated by a psychiatrist.  Wow.  Just.....wow.

Update:  She just informed me that she is still taking it.  I advised her to stop until being evaluated by a psychiatrist due to "health risks." We'll see where this goes, if anywhere.  I have also found several accounts of Zoloft triggering manic episodes on various websites. 

[OldPilot]

So your diagnosis is that your ex is bipolar?

You think telling her this is going to help you or her?

I don't think so.

[lawprofessor]

Wow this has disaster written all over it.

This is not new news to you.  I told you j is on medication for bipolar including depression pills and mood stabilizers. 

You think you diagnosing her as bipolar is helpful?

She already feels you are controlling and superior because of your career, lacks confidence and resents your protectiveness.  She has repeatedly told you just those things. 

Now you tell her she needs to be evaluated by a psychiatrist?  You think she didn't translate that as her being crazy? ?? 

And you tell her to go off her meds for depression when she has a history of serious depression?

And she doesn't seem to be currently showing signs of being manic that you have mentioned. 

No current hypersexuality.
No not sleeping for days.
No inability to perform her job.
No high risk taking behavior.
No inability to take care of her ADL' s.
No huge money management issues.
No cycling between manic and depressive states.

You are still trying to fix her.
This is stuff newbies do not someone 5 years in to this.

And 10 steps back from where you were.

How many times do you have to be told to stop diagnosing her? 

MLC and bipolar have much in common true.  But you are walking a very dangerous line personally and professionally. 

Where is my 4 x 2 ?  And my soda???

####@!$&#@@@&!!

[wondering]

It is also very dangerous to stop taking it without being slowly tapered off under a doctor's watch.  Most antidepressants should be weaned off and not stopped abruptly.  I have to agree with lp, you are trying to save her again and again and again.  Do you really believe Zoloft caused her MLC? 

[Thundarr]

I have always believed that the capacity for SSRI's to affect personality changes may have been a factor in her MLC.  It makes perfect sense that the meds may have triggered something latent in her body, and I truly believe that once more of the negative affects of SSRI's are known then they will be taken off the market or at the very least regulated much more than they are.  We used to think that benzos were the Wonder Drugs that society had long been waiting for but now know that the benzo addiction epidemic is a national disaster.  XW stared taking Zoloft due to depression over her mom's illness, but the reality is that it very likely kept her from experiencing the emotions she needed to in order to grieve properly.  It may well have triggered the bipolar that definitely runs in her family, and continued use may be both fueling some of the behaviors as well as preventing her from being able to feel connections with anyone to include the kids.  It DOES make perfect sense and would answer many of the questions.

[Thunder]

Thundarr, does SHE think she needs to go off her meds?  Does her doctor? I really think that should be left up to them to figure this out.

It does sound like you are trying to fix her.  If only we could.

[Thundarr]

The Zoloft has been prescribed by a PCP, and in my experience PCP's should stick to prescribing antibiotics or drugs for things they are specifically trained to diagnose.  I've worked with kids and adults who have horror stories of being misdiagnosed with a mental illness by PCP's such as having kids on stimulant ADHD meds for YEARS when the kid is suffering from anxiety or even autism/ Asperger's and was never ADHD in the first place.  Not many PCP's are specially trained enough to diagnose mental illness, and quite often a diagnose can't even be made without information from multiple sources and observations in various settings.  I doubt many PCP's would be skilled enough to diagnose Bipolar Disorder, differentiate between Bipolar I and II and/ or between a Bipolar episode and a Major Depressive episode.  It just scares me to think this may be the root of XW's MLC/ crazy behavior and makes me question why I didn't insist she see a psychiatrist back in those days when I first noticed the personality changes.

[Thunder]

Chances are she wouldn't have gone anyway.  Remember MCer's think they are just fine.  Nothing wrong with them.
 

[lawprofessor]

Really?

Where are the current manic cycles since she is still on the meds?

Why didn't someone tell the prescribing physician about the hyper sexuality when she was originally being diagnosed?   Is that why you can't let this go, because you feel guilty?

She is connecting with D22.  She is connecting with S going to his practices.  She just isn't connecting in the way YOU want her to.  How do you explain that?

She didn't and doesn't still know how to grieve properly.  Nothing new there.

Still looking for a way to explain this rationally after about 5 years?  REALLY ??

Newbie activity.
No benefit.
Cheeseless tunnel.

How would this change your situation assuming for argument it was the meds?

Nothing changes.
She would still be in MLC.
Only now it's complicated by an additional factor, mental illness.  Stopping the meds will not miraculously turn her back into the person she was before.
What?   Should she go back to being the blob on the couch who can't move?

Long timers in this often have additional complicating factors such as addictions and or mental illness.  It changes nothing.  I live with this fact everyday in my own home.  It wasn't until I let him go, detached. And demanded respect and for him to act like he had some sense that he became better.  No taking care of him.  No enabling.  No diagnosing.  No excuses.  What makes you think your situation is so different?

You can't medicate her or control her intake of meds.
Long term depression and mania cause damaging changes in the brain itself.  You won't get the old wife back.  What are you hoping to get from all this?

She hasn't even felt comfortable and come to you for help but here you are yet again cramming help and UN asked for advice down her throat, not so subtly undermining her confidence, setting yourself up as the savior, and telling here there is something very wrong with her and how to fix it to your satisfaction.  That's not love or respect. 

Same old behavior.  You won't even fix your own problems.  What makes you think you could even begin to help her if it is mental illness?   

You are still being a fixer.

Son of a b!#ch, I am frustrated.  I really hoped I was reaching you in some small way.  I am very sorry I was wrong. 

IF YOU ARE RIGHT HOW EXACTLY DOES THIS CHANGE YOUR SITUATION ?

[Thundarr]

I think you're missing the point, LP.  It wasn't until recent years that it was discovered that hallucinogenic drugs (acid, peyote, LSD etc) had the potential to unlock several mental disorders that may have lain dormant otherwise.  I've worked with adults who had one bad hit and have been dealing with psychoses and paranoia ever since, very much like the symptoms I saw in XW in the early days.  We are just scratching the surface on the effect that SSRI's have on the brain and what potential side effects they may have in some people and today's was a revelation to me.  What IF the drug unlocked those symptoms in XW that were never there before and would not have been?  What IF continued use of the drug keeps the symptoms present and discontinuation of the drug resulted in a cessation of all symptoms eventually.  What IF all that we believe about MLC here can be explained (case specific, of course) or even treated by conventional methods?  Perhaps I'm like a mad scientist driven to obsession over unlocking this puzzle, or perhaps I can add to the body of evidence in the field that will eventually lead to SSRI's being taken off the market and therefore saving several others in the process.  XW displayed NONE of these symptoms prior to initiating the Zoloft and within 3-4 months began displaying severe personality changes.  And I have a confession to make that it was me who suggested she start on an anti-depressant as I had little experience with them then and had a supervisor who recommended it.  Can you see why I might feel a little responsibility here if it turns out to be the major factor?  XW had free will in choosing to do so, but she trusted my judgment then and I believe in most cases still would now.  I haven't taken a step back but rather just the opposite.  I'm trying to take a step forward not just for me but for all of us......and for those who have yet to find themselves in our shoes. 

To take this a step further, since I'm not a prescriber and meds are out of my realm of expertise I'm going to consult with our resident psychiatrist and ARNP whose offices are just a few feet away from mine.  Not going into details but rather going to pick their brains (and a few other prescriber friends) to see what their views on the possibility of this are as well as their experiences.  I'll keep the thread updated and report back whatever it is that I find out but it will probably be next week as most of them are off on Fridays.