Author Topic: Discussion Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing  (Read 15233 times)

Offline OldPilotTopic starter

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Discussion Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« on: November 04, 2015, 12:25:51 PM »
We have been having a discussion on the mod board about divorce/separation and Standing.

This excellent post by R2T - I will bring out here.

Stayed also has some great points but I will let her make them herself.

Thanks R2T - I hope you have no objection to me putting this here.

I want to say that we should develop a bit of a financial checklist. Of course, all situations will be unique, but certainly there must be at least 5 questions we all asked ourselves (or wish we had) before starting the process of financial protection.

Is my spouse contributing to mortgage/rent willingly?
Is my spouse contributing to the support of the children willingly?
Do I have transportation?
Has my ability to provide basic needs like food/utilities/school expenses for the kids changed?
Do I have my own bank account, or am I totally dependent on a joint account that I could lose access to?
Do I have my own means of taking care of phone/insurance should those suddenly be revoked?
Is my spouse accruing debts that are also my legal responsibility but not to my benefit?
What's my career status and what needs to happen to earn a wage that would cover all of this?
What's my base level monthly incoming/outgoing, with and without my spouse?

Maybe if we established something like this and encouraged them to know the answers to these questions (maybe there are friends and family that could help with some aspects, or they could start moving in the direction of getting some schooling), that would be at least a temporary answer that could keep papers from being filed.

Offline Hmmm

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2015, 12:42:51 PM »
My husband is still contributing to most of the things he always did but he is using credit cards (in his name only). Do any of you know if I would be responsible for this debt if he lost his job or died or something?
Thanks
X

Online Thunder

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2015, 02:58:50 PM »
Hmmm.

I don't THINK so.  If you are not named on the credit card I don't think you have any responsibility for it.

Old Pilot,

The best thing I ever did was make a budget of what my expenses would be without him.
I spent a lot of time on it because you need to add everything, even misc. items like shampoo and dog food.

Some things I had to estimate, like rent, because I still lived in the house.
But once you start putting it down on paper it's a little scary.  You need more than you think you do and it involves more than you know off the top of your head.

One list was my expenses, one list was showing his income and mine. Then I even made a list of his expenses, which I knew because I lived there.
It all helps to put things in perspective for your lawyer.  It's a starting point.

With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2015, 03:02:56 PM »
No problem with it at all, OP!

Hmmmm, you need to consult with someone who understands the laws in your jurisdiction. In my state. Any marital debt, in either person or both parties' names, is jointly owed.

I edit this to add, though, that also in my state, if you are ordered by your divorce decree to pay said debt that is in your spouse's name, that doesn't mean any creditors will pursue YOU for the debt - they will still just pursue the person whose name it is in. They are not governed by a divorce decree. This is of benefit, I guess, if the debt is in your spouse's name. It is not to your benefit, as in my case, where debts were jointly accrued in just my name, and now my spouse avoids paying them.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 03:04:56 PM by Ready2Transform »
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline Head.Held.High

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2015, 03:24:20 PM »
I bought myself some lovely items with my H's credit cards, then I promptly removed myself as a authorized user on them.  His debt, not mine.  I live in Texas.  My credit score is WAY up and his is well...way low..  Not my problem.  As he finds out and texts or calls me on them, I tell him, act like it's a diamond engagement ring and pay it.  (He bought OW a $5000 diamond ring last June while my Mom lay dying in our home).  I don't feel guilty at all.  After all, he told me to get what I needed.

As for the joint bills, if he keeps the item, I'm demanding he refinance it.  I will not waiver on this issue either, I've been burnt before.

Protect yourself.

If he should die, I would simply put deceased on envelope and return to sender.  Who's credit will it screw up?  Not mine if I'm not on the account.

My H has only given me $1000 since September 1st.  I do collect rent on our rental houses so I'm in good shape overall.  That money used to go into a retirement account.  Just with everything else, it has to be adjusted and modified.



08/12 - Discovered EA
09/12 - H Moved Out and back at least four times since.
07/14 - EA moved to PA - found a letter from OW
08/14 - H Filed for D
12/14 - H dropped his D proceedings - Mine still active
09/15 - Back to Lawyers for D to continue
02/16 - I moved out of his home
03/16  - OW moved in his home
11/16 - He kicked OW out and begged me to come home.  Tried "dating" again.
03/16 - Told him I would not move back in.
03/16 - OW back (2 days after I told him)

Online Thunder

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2015, 03:31:28 PM »
Ready, I agree checking with a lawyer is the way to go but I think unless you are on the contract it is not legally binding.
How can you be responsible for debt you did sign for??

If my H bought a car on his own, I gave no legal responsibility for it.  Just because we were married doesn't mean they can come after me for his debt.  What legal obligation do I have for it in a court of law?  The car would not be considered joint, marital property.
He bought it.  I had nothing to do with it.  ??
With her permission, a quote from a recovered MLCer: 
From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did.

Offline Ready2Transform

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2015, 03:53:34 PM »
I understand your logic behind it, Thunder, and I did not make this law. In the state of Kansas, any debt accrued during the marriage is joint debt unless it is some sort of business debt protected by incorporation. If your spouse buys a car, and it's just in their name, it is a joint asset and debt in the eyes of the Kansas court. I have seen this in action not just with my own divorce, but my father's two divorces as well. It is why my xH's new wife will likely have to sign a quit claim deed on my home - since it is his asset, if THEY divorce, she may be able to name it as a joint asset and have claim to it.

Not going to say it's not screwed up, but it's the law. Never assume, always double check! And no, I will never again carry someone else's debt in my name. Any reconciliation, which is not even in my mind, would be without a legal marriage.
"Unconditional love is the highest of high standards, and while we are letting go of our need to control the process of anyone else, we are taking within our lives complete accountability for our own experience."

http://seriousvanity.com/how-to-cultivate-unconditional-love-and-change-the-world/

Offline Split open and melt

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2015, 05:21:35 PM »
In my state, credit card debt incurred during the marriage is considered shared marital debt regardless of who's name the card is in. I know this because it was brought up by our mediators. I waived her responsibility for my credit card debt though even though she wanted the divorce and would have been obligated to split it. Not worth fighting over and it was my debt not hers.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 11:58:42 PM by Split open and melt »
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Offline Onward

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2015, 10:52:33 PM »
OP, not sure whether you are looking for feedback overall or not. So just in case....

One of the things I would add to the discussion is that I specifically sought out, and found, the HS main site and the forum because I was searching for information as someone who didn't want a divorce. I appreciate then, and still do, that this site identified itself as a resource for standers -- that it was *not* a divorce site and there were lots of *other* resources available on the internet regarding separation and divorce.

There are so many social and information influences that encourage LBSs to "just move on". There's a subtle & not so subtle pressure toward divorce that adds to the burden of self-doubt for standers such as myself who already have to dig deep to try and understand what has happened to their marriage, to try and maintain love for their spouse, and maintain confidence in their stand.

Divorce sites are plentiful. HS is rare.

Knowledge regarding how to protect oneself in response to a spouse's push for separation and/or divorce is helpful, and a checklist might be wise. And as RCR noted a while ago, a community does evolve over time.

Still, for what it's worth, I think it would be a loss to those folks who are looking for support in standing for their marriages if the momentum of the forum shifted toward preparation for divorce rather than strength for a lonely stand.   
« Last Edit: November 04, 2015, 10:54:06 PM by Onward »
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Offline calamity

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Re: Financial Checklist and Legal ramifications of Standing
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2015, 11:01:23 PM »
Quote
Still, for what it's worth, I think it would be a loss to those folks who are looking for support in standing for their marriages if the momentum of the forum shifted toward preparation for divorce rather than strength for a lonely stand.

I agree. I hope this doesn't happen.  But.  You know when we say 'put the oxygen mask on yourself first'?  Securing your finances is part of this.  Mlc lasts a long time & we have to at least think about the worst case scenario.

 

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