[Onward]

Definitely heard "don't know who I am" and "never had the chance to live alone" and "am a pleaser so always did what other people wanted". So there were definitely expressions of identity turmoil.

[stayed]

Me too Onward, I saw lot's of that, incredible confusion.  He would be begging me to give him more time, and 5 minutes later, mocking me and telling me, "he was going to marry her"!  He would tell me how unhappy he was, how unhappy he had been. At first it was the last couple of years and then it was the last 4 or 5 years and eventually, HE HAD NEVER been happy with me.  From the day he married me, he knew he had made a big mistake.  Then he would be crying, begging me to give him time to sort this out. 

It's all so crazy.  This was a man who always seemed to know what he was doing.  Why he was doing it.  Where he wanted to be.  He just seemed to have all the answers.  He became a terrible mess. 

I wish every marriage could be saved.  I don't know why so few are.  I wish I did.  There is only one thing I know for certain, UNLESS we protect ourselves in every possible way, physically, mentally and emotionally, WE can't or won't be of much use to anybody.  Law Professor said something really important on Thundarr's thread today...

What the 3 all recommend is that these people need to learn the lessons they were intended to learn during this crisis for themselves.  That we cannot help them nor cushion the fall.  In attempting to do so, we can even damage their chances of fully learning and healing is the take away then.

I believe this statement 100%.  Of the few marriages that I have seen attempt to reconcile, it was not done with unconditional FORGETFULNESS, it was done with clear firm boundaries.  That was the mistake I made.  I had not set firm boundaries.  Mainly because my h returned quite suddenly, and besides that, the other 3 or 4 times that he attempted a reconnection, he ran back to OW within days... or a couple of weeks.  Quite frankly, I WAS NOT EXPECTING to be with him very long.  I ended up making up my boundaries as I went.  Basically week by week.  Month to month... until 3 years later, I realized, HE'S GOING TO STAY!  At least for now. 

It will be 10 years this July 5th.  There is a part of me, that would not be surprised if he left again, I sort of wait for it.  I'm not sure it would be any different with a completely different partner or not.  That absolute trust is gone now.  I don't think it ever returns for anybody.  It's not a bad thing.

Hugs Stayed

[Musica]

Stayed does your h have absolute trust in you?

XxxX

[UKStander]

Or himself, for that matter? 
Good questions! 

[stayed]

Stayed does your h have absolute trust in you?

Yes Musica, he does!  I don't think it is healthy to trust anybody like that, but my past experiences have taught me that.  He has been fortunate and never experienced it, hence the reason for his absolute trust in me.  I have an outstanding track record. I do not encourage this ABSOLUTE TRUST of his, as I told him, NOT FAIR, too burdensome.  His response was, "until I have experienced otherwise, I have no reason not to trust you completely"!  I can understand that, I felt the same way, once upon a long, long time ago.


As for himself UKStander, I believe he does trust himself.  My h is funny, he has always been a half empty type of guy, which at one time he would have adamantly proclaimed that he didn't trust anybody but himself.  This experience changed his attitude about trusting himself,  which is really saying he had great faith in his intelligence, his  opinion, himself.  Discovering that he was not as "brilliant" as he always believe himself to be was so DEVASTING, so painful for him, that  his fear of going through it again, terrifies him. I don't think it's the actual Crisis that terrifies him, I think it was what he ALMOST LOST that makes the hair on the back of his neck and the person with whom he almost threw it all away, for.  He is very aware that if he had not snapped out of it, he most likely would have MARRIED his OW, and she really is a piece of work, extraordinaire!  

I am a partner.  100% committed to myself, him and our children.  In that order too.  OW, is no "team player", she looks out for herself and herself ONLY.

Hugs Stayed

[Medusa]

Stayed, you just described mine exactly. Half-empty with arrogant belief in his intellect, etc.

You also described OW--only out for herself.

Fascinating the personality similarities, isn't it?

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I wish every marriage could be saved.  I don't know why so few are.  I wish I did.  There is only one thing I know for certain, UNLESS we protect ourselves in every possible way, physically, mentally and emotionally, WE can't or won't be of much use to anybody.  Law Professor said something really important on Thundarr's thread today...

What the 3 all recommend is that these people need to learn the lessons they were intended to learn during this crisis for themselves.  That we cannot help them nor cushion the fall.  In attempting to do so, we can even damage their chances of fully learning and healing is the take away then.

I believe this statement 100%. 

This jumped out at me because I went to see my trauma therapist today and she told me she thinks my wife will remain in crisis unless she gets help. She doesn't believe my wife will be able to work through this on her own. She said my wife has a dependent personality and she will just transfer her dependence to the alienator.

[lawprofessor]

Brain, I think j would have remained in crisis if he had not gotten help as well.  After all he had been a high energy Replayer for a bit over 9 years.  The help came in the form of a wonderful physician as well as the training I got here and elsewhere.   But the key in his case was that he chose for himself to get help.  He only choose that when he had no other easy viable options.  The world had put the screws to him.  I put the screws to him hard when I saw he was near the bottom.  I took away many of his cushions.   When he talked to me about things, I didn't let him re write history or listen to spew from him.  I didn't allow him to speak badly of his ex.  Serious boundaries were set with serious consequences when violated.  But I listened and held him and gave him space.

Yes he spent years transferring his dependent personality on over 50 women.  But it was never enough to fill the hole in his soul.  The ow got tired of it.  He left them when they couldn't meet his needs.

It happens.  Have faith.  But it is serious he!! when they do begin the process.  I was prepared everyday to come home and find j had killed himself.  Their depression is contagious.  I had to fight that as well so I wasn't sucked down the hole with him.  I had to be strong, detached, never react to anything.  I was everything and nothing to him each and every day.  Every minute I watched what I said and how I said it.  I had to be 100% consistent in all things.  There was never the option of me being sick, or sad, or have a headache or tired.  Once I went to the doctor for my yearly exam.  I came home to find j in tears wanting to know how much longer I would live.  I had to assess his every mood and adjust on a minute by minute basis.  One mistake sent him over the edge.  Too motherly and I was being controlling.   Too detached and I didn't care.  I heard things that made me cringe.  I could show not reaction.  Etc.

That's why at this point I think the best thing you can do is get yourself healthy and healed.  That way you are good and the additional benefit is that you have a shot at being there for her if and when she is ready.  Because, my friend, I say this with all respect, admiration, and caring, I just don't think you are mentally strong and healthy enough yet for that.   I'm not trying to be disrespectful or insulting in any way, please believe me.  I know you would give it a mighty try if she came home this evening.  But your wife is a seriously hurt person who will need everything you've got and more if she ends up on the path of healing.  You owe yourself the best possible healing, and that is coincidentally what she will need as well if that time comes.

I hope you take this as its intended, and as well that it's just my opinion from my experience.
Best, LP 

[theheartknows]

Haven't been on this site in a while. I am raising my hand to the question on the thread.

Yes, I am a teacher (31years.) MA in Counseling.

[trusting]

I am a teacher, as is H.