Skip to main content

Author Topic: Discussion Discussion thread

o

osb

  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 724
  • Gender: Female
I'm also feeling a need to clarify  :)

I've got no doubt that neurology underpins some disorders. Yet we know that, even in cases of clinical depression, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, it's the interaction between the social world, genetic propensity and physical environment which can trigger, worsen or ameliorate the conditions. We can no longer talk about nature and nurture alone, or even social constructivism in isolation. They are interlinked.
However, after 6 years on this forum, and after extensive reading, I really do doubt that what we call MLC is one thing at all. In fact, there's no evidence for it. 10% of American men do have a something they crisis, but it's likely to be a cultural construction as this is not so prevalent outside the US, and absent in some cultures.

Occam's razor has been proven so wrong in biological terms. Almost every disorder is indeed multifactorial. There's no such thing as "this one molecule went wrong, so my brain crashed". Heart attacks? There are genetic predispositions, lifestyle predispositions, intercurrent illnesses and life events, all inhomogenously intersecting with the simple nature of narrowed cardiac plumbing - even that's not 'one disease' - but we approach heart attack as one disease based on commonalities of presentation, and commonalities as to how to treat it. I research the physiology of a fairly niche disease, and even that one the WHO has classified into 5 major types, each with over a dozen subgroups, each looking rather different from the other, with a somewhat different constellation of causes (...you should see the looks on my students' faces when I ask questions on this topic!). So, a relatively understudied phenomenon like MLC? Yes there are likely many underlying causes - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't group the similarities and study the whole grab-bag as a disease, while trying to sift out the lumps.

When I talked about a biochemical etiology, I do mean brass tacks. Biochemistry tells us very nicely HOW something goes wrong. It's a final common pathway ('because of all these things that each suddenly went out of step, now this key doesn't fit into this lock'). It says nothing about WHY. Childhood trauma, FOO, coping mechanisms, other mood disorders or underlying personality disorder traits, all collide with present events to decide WHY NOW (and possibly, WHY NOT THAT OTHER GUY). None of these theories contradict each other, they enrich each other (and make dumbfounded researchers struggle for their insights :P ).

I don't know that the phenomenon of MLC is truly more common in North America (many on this board from outside of NA). It may be that BD and the mayhem that surrounds it plays out differently in different cultures. Anecdotally, my uncle went through a full-blown MLC, but in his country and community, divorce is pretty much unheard of - following the stereotypical rages-and-withdrawal phase (followed the script to a T!), my uncle went off to live as a monk in a hermitage. My beloved aunt dealt, very much as this forum recommends. Eventually, uncle's MLC burned out, and he returned home. When my H's MLC started, talking with my aunt was an eye-opener. Yup, seems to happen everywhere.

Forgive my long-windedness... punchline: for MLC, biochemistry is only the lever. Psychology supplies the hand that pulls the lever.
  • Logged
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 05:13:33 PM by osb »
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

k
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 6918
  • Gender: Female
Quote
I don't know that the phenomenon of MLC is truly more common in North America (many on this board from outside of NA). It may be that BD and the mayhem that surrounds it plays out differently in different cultures. Anecdotally, my uncle went through a full-blown MLC, but in his country and community, divorce is pretty much unheard of - following the stereotypical rages-and-withdrawal phase (followed the script to a T!), my uncle went off to live as a monk in a hermitage. My beloved aunt dealt, very much as this forum recommends. Eventually, uncle's MLC burned out, and he returned home. When my H's MLC started, talking with my aunt was an eye-opener. Yup, seems to happen everywhere.

I would agree.  I am now back working in an area that I worked prior to my marriage.  Having worked in a completely different field for 20 plus years, the changes are a little gobsmacking.  One of the changes are the many and varied nationalities of the lovely people that I now work alongside.  It's fascinating.  What I had once assumed, I now find is not necessarily true at all, about many things.  Including the fact that many men at midlife suddenly can think destructively and abandon their wife and family for a younger woman.  Apparently this is a very common phenomenon globally and through a broad range of cultures.

What we take as gospel is not necessarily so.
  • Logged

V
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2973
  • Gender: Female
Kikki, OSB so interesting. I grew up abroad and while I was too young for MLC to be on my radar (actually it was not on my radar until age 39), I think you are correct that it exists everywhere but may be regarded differently or the cultural coping mechanisms may be different. Historically men could take concubines and polygamy still exists in some parts of the world. Who knows, perhaps these practices actually began to safeguard the first wife and her children.

I think many parts of the world we regard as chauvinistic do have an aspect missing in the U.S. and that is a male culture that allows for close relationships and continued bonding among men throughout adulthood. This combined with extended families living closer and denser populations in general may prevent some men becoming too isolated.

If you watched Mad Men, remember Pete Campbell started to freak out once he moved to the suburbs. American life can be very alienating and lonely. When you live surrounded by people there are examples everywhere of how to live at all ages.

I wish there were monasteries worldwide for MLCers, though.
  • Logged
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 11:03:41 PM by Velika »

M
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 6859
  • Gender: Male
And there are some pretty smart people on this forum so I don't think I'm the only one who can do these things.
Thanks to all for proving I was correct when I wrote this. The people on this forum are amazing, especially those posting on this thread. Way beyond my broken brain but I'm enjoying reading all of the posts.

American life can be very alienating and lonely.
Sadly, this is very true. I don't know what I'd do if my daughter and grandchildren didn't live close by.
  • Logged

  • *
  • Mentor
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 24016
  • Gender: Female
I find it interesting that so many of you realize there are so many different facets to MLC.
No two are exactly the same.

I came on this site and pretty much didn't believe my H was in a crisis.  I felt he was so different from the other MLCer's.
It had to be he just fell out of love with me....UNTIL I read an article on Low Energy MLCer's.
It described my H to a TEE!!!  Honestly, it was like someone wrote it just for him.

I realized there are different types of MLCer's.  But it's still MLC.

Now having said that, not all LE MICer's are the exact same either. 
  • Logged
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

o

osb

  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 724
  • Gender: Female
I wish there were monasteries worldwide for MLCers, though.

But Velika, did I mention how many hermitages my uncle bounced in and out of, during his MLC? ;D  In another world I suppose these could have all been OW's - in my uncle's case, he kept signing up, living the heroically godly life for some months, then grumbling home to reboot and relaunch. Complained vociferously the first hermitage was too luxurious, the second too spartan (...this pillow is toooo soft! and this pillow is toooo hard!!). When I got an invite to visit him at his final hermitage attempt, "you'll love it dear, it has wifi and a hermit-cam"... that's when I knew he'd soon be giving up and going home to my endlessly patient aunt.  ???  ::)
  • Logged
« Last Edit: August 02, 2016, 09:16:14 PM by osb »
"You have a right to action, not to the fruit thereof; shoot your arrow, but do not look to see where it lands."  -Bhagavad Gita

V
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2973
  • Gender: Female
OSB oh no! I am trying to imagine a support board for this. "Do I have a praying boomerang?" "Why an ashram down is an advantage to a Stander."

Did you say this also took three years? Did your aunt have any good advice for you?
  • Logged

  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 16546
  • Gender: Female
Re: Discussion thread
#87: August 03, 2016, 02:37:35 PM
I have put some of the last post from the neuroscience thread here. They were getting away from neuroscience and turning into a discussion about MLC.

osb, I think I prefer a MLCer who goes from hermitage to hermitage to one with OW.  Ah, yes, the troubles of a too luxurious or a too spartan hermitage. ::) Now, if only there was a perfect hermitage, suited to the MLCer wishes and wants.  ::)
  • Logged
Sometimes good things fall apart so better things can fall together. (Marilyn Monroe)

  • *
  • Mentor
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 24016
  • Gender: Female
Re: Discussion thread
#88: August 03, 2016, 03:23:23 PM
Anjae, good idea because neuroscience is way above my pay grade.  I don't understand much about it.

I only know about MLC.   :)



  • Logged
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

V
  • *****
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2973
  • Gender: Female
Re: Discussion thread
#89: August 03, 2016, 06:06:54 PM
I just found this discussion when the neurology thread comments were moved here. But for me this move demonstrates why these questions are so compelling.

For me, MLC represents a huge question: What is Going On and How Might It Progress? Right now there is not a lot of formal research to go on. Unsuspecting spouses are forced to deal with something that appears like (and could be) a lot of different things all at once.

This forum offers examples of people who have had a very similar experience and in many cases done a lot of research or read enough to be able to offer insights and meaningful advice.

Before all this I had no reason to research midlife crisis, bipolar, NPD, BPD, spousal abandonment, major depression, sociopathy, SSRI reactions, emotional abuse, infidelity, Jung, what part of the brain personality and empathy reside in. I'm not sure where else on the internet I could go and find people who have not only looked into all that but have done so for the exact same reasons.

Sometimes I think there must be a far better term for what this is, something along lines of Acute Onset Depressive Disorder or even Acute Onset Depressive Psychosis. Sometimes I feel the big mystery is not whether to stand or not but whether this is neurological or psychological. Sometimes I think the decision to stand changes and evolves with circumstances both related to the MLC behavior and also just how life unfolds.

Regarding No Contact, I think that should be the advice for anyone who has experienced emotional or narcissistic abuse. If No Contact is impossible, I would advocate low contact and immediately retaining a lawyer to consult on all other communication.
  • Logged

 

Legal Disclaimer

The information contained within The Hero's Spouse website family (www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com, http://theherosspouse.com and associated subdomains), (collectively 'website') is provided as general information and is not intended to be a substitute for professional legal, medical or mental health advice or treatment for specific medical conditions. The Hero's Spouse cannot be held responsible for the use of the information provided. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a trained medical or mental health professional before making any decision regarding treatment of yourself or others. The Hero's Spouse recommends that you consult a legal professional for specific legal advice.

Any information, stories, examples, articles, or testimonials on this website do not constitute a guarantee, or prediction regarding the outcome of an individual situation. Reading and/or posting at this website does not constitute a professional relationship between you and the website author, volunteer moderators or mentors or other community members. The moderators and mentors are peer-volunteers, and not functioning in a professional capacity and are therefore offering support and advice based solely upon their own experience and not upon legal, medical, or mental health training.