[Thunder]

InIt,

I can somewhat relate.
My 1st X was a very sick man.  He was not a faithful H and was a very selfish father. I learned years later he was a true narcissist.
He never abused any of us physically, but emotional abuse can be just as harmful.

He left scars on everyone of my kids and myself.  I was so young (17) when we got married and at that time he was shy and sweet.
But he grew into a monster as the years went by.  He terrorized us for a long time.

I have never missed being with him after the D and I forgave him.  His childhood was one of the worse I knew of (drunken, physically abusive to the whole family).  How can a person grow up like that and be anywhere near normal?
I've said before when I compare the kind of father he was, compared to his father, he really was a good father "in his mind."

Anyway, HE is the type of man who I should have gone NC with.

[elray]

I never went NC.  Even when we weren't talking, we had a weird routine of getting up at 5:30 am and going to the gym together.  Barely any exchange of pleasantries, but then my wife's MLC wasn't as deep as some here and while we lived separately in different parts of the house, we still co-habitated.

My observation of our community, however, is that there is an unspoken apprehension about NC:
              Will going NC cause me to emotionally distance and re-examine the relationship?

IMO this fear is often rooted in codependency and a tenacious reluctance to examine our own growth opportunity out of codependency.   Sometimes, through this lens, NC advise sounds like a threatening  and BITTER medicine.  That can progress to a projection on someone offering such advise. 

JMO...take what you want from that.

[in it]

T-

This jackass didn't have some horrible drunken childhood. The ex liked to paint the "white picket fence" scenario so "normal" and healthy. It wasn't.

What he did not acknowledge that was unhealthy ( his father's control, temper, entitlement issues and his mothers enabling) he would not plug it into effecting him or his own childhood.

And I think anybody would think I had a pretty big screw loose of I was still talking to or having anything to do with him after his behavior ( threatening, stalking, menacing, harrassing, verbally abusive like he pretty much has been anyway so it wasn't easy for me to see I was being disrespected) starting with just 5 years ago and after the DV incident.

I'm out of the drama business. NC was a matter of self preservation. It isn't for everybody. But if you have tried everything - it's the only thing left.

As hokey as this sounds look up on line what to do after a break up divorce etc and any article I have ever read suggests you go NC for a certain amount of time.

As far as my kids? I did not see that coming. It is their wishes I'm respecting by not communicating and they have given me no clear direct way to make contact with them.  Or at least one I would consider using.

[Beacon]

I guess my opinion on NC is that it is different for each situation. Each crisis is different.

My W has never Monstered or been nasty to me therefore we are able to communicate. I obviously let her initiate the contact but I am not short with her. I will answer in a polite manner and it seems to work for us right now. If she did start to monster then I would not respond in the same manner.

We just have to remember that each crisis is different, some have serious monsters on their hands and are verbally abusive and I think in that case NC is a good option for the LBS to save themselves from that kind of behavior.

[honour]

There is no joy in divorce. 

But there is joy in being free and single.

[Absolutely Fabulous]

Whether standers should be the only ones who are on the HS forum?
Whether NC (which as far as I can see - I really was never in) is a doomsday to a R?
Is there a role for the "Bitter" divorced moderators on the forum?


OK here is the verdict from the Swedish jury! 

A, It's an almost open forum isn't it? Am I standing or not. Honestly I have no freaking idea. I was abused so "standing" would make me a kamikaze pilot, doesn't it? Am I not standing? Don't know this either. I'm not rushing around trying to find someone new. Take one day at time. IF I happen to run into someone nice and interesting and it's mutual, I would not turn him down. Is that not standing? Conclusion, me myself and I cycle about this question so much and I think I'm not the only one, so why should not, NOT standers be allowed on the HS forum?

B, NC doomsday to a R. I have no idea! I do know, for me (only talking about me here) I put more value in my own healing, not ever want to have contact with a person who has no respect for me. This, for me, goes for all interactions I have with people. I cut them out of my life. NOT MY KIDS!!! Speaking from my experience with my mlc dad (never came out of the tunnel) he ran away for 4-5 years or so (back in the early 80th) he then contacted me and behaved like he never left, still confuses me a lot that someone can do this. He died 2006 or something and all these years he tried to contact me several times. As for my mlc mother (she was the one who had the affair, lasted 3-4 years weekend and holidays only) she is now in her 80th, she never apologized (what I know about) to my dad, still in her tunnel, tried to apologize to us children when I was in my 30th. She got worse and worse, more and more narc behavior when she got older, pity parties a lot. I cut contact approx. 2008. She tries to contact me, trough my coworkers/friends etc. and some direct contact. Got one HUGE birthday card 2 years ago, really strange card with lots of photos of me when I was young/younger. My Conclusion, I think NC or no NC, they still reach out, may take a little bit longer but they reach out.

C, Bitter? What is "bitter"? Is bitter someone who is harsh? direct? have different views of stuff? Who is envious? Angry? Negative? I can be all of the above and so can everyone else. Somedays S*CKS (try living in my part of the world when it's 0 degrees and raining + darkness 6 months every year)  , that's just the way life is. These are the days I want a baseball bat and my mlc in close range!    Other days are not so bad and positive, these are the days when your pupils return from winter holliday with a chocolate box specially for me. Conclusion everyone that is on this forum and contributing with the healing, with their knowledge in medicine/psychology/law or what ever has a role in this forum, mentor or not.

I try to do my best on this forum, I do have a vanisher so I don't have so much info (yet) but I can give my thoughts and maybe some will find them useful some might not. Conclusion on this, this is my way of trying to pay back to others, the help I got from all of you on this forum, when I was at the bottom of this mess.

This was powerful, and I agree totally. I try my best to post positive things just for this reason. I don't always succeed, but that is my intention. I have moved on, and I'm healing.

[Anjae]

1 - Whether standers should be the only ones who are on the HS forum?
2 -Whether NC (which as far as I can see - I really was never in) is a doomsday to a R?
3 - Is there a role for the "Bitter" divorced moderators on the forum?

My replies.

1- No. But we should all have in mind that this is a site, and board, aimed at trying to reduce divorce and increase reconciliations. This is HS mission statement:

To provide information, advice and support on how to Stand for marriage to men and women experiencing midlife crisis and infidelity in their marriages.
To prevent divorces.
To reduce the overall rate of divorce.
To encourage an alternative to divorce.
To encourage personal growth and loving of one’s Self.

This does not meant that, if necessary, divorce must not be an option.

2 - It seems that those who reconciled usually not have cut contact with their MLCer. Or if they have done it, it was for a short period, and usually not early on. It also seems that those with boomerangs have better chances of reconciliation. Clingers are included in boomerangs. At a point I went NC. But I have a MLCer who was physically abusive. Also, it was becoming too much to me to handle Mr J and his anger. I don't think it has helped the changes of reconciliation one bit. It has, however, done wonders for my mental sanity and peace of mind.

3 - Sometimes people here are bitter. We all have good and bad days. We all have stages in our journey. But divorced does not equal bitter.

[limitless]

There is no joy in divorce. 

But there is joy in being free and single.

This made me smile today.


Thanks for the smile, Honour.

L

[Reallytrying]

1 - Whether standers should be the only ones who are on the HS forum?
2 -Whether NC (which as far as I can see - I really was never in) is a doomsday to a R?
3 - Is there a role for the "Bitter" divorced moderators on the forum?


1.  I don't think there should be limitations on who can use HS.  I think people who are standers, people getting a divorce unwillingly, people who initiated the divorce, couples reconnecting or reconciling all have things we can learn from each other. I also think it would be very artificial to exclude people who eventually decided not to stand.  Like Anjae said I think all should be welcome as long as we keep the mission on the site in mind.

2.  I have no idea whether NC is a doomsday to a R but I do feel personally that where possible maintaining connection is desirable.  Early after BD I went through the Marital Fitness program by Mort Fertel which is not specific to MLC.  However, he is a big proponent of connection and believes in systematically initiating non logistical contact.  His program made sense for me and his philosophy about consistency of behavior was one that I found very helpful.  Based on his program I have chosen to initiate non-logistical contact consistently.  This is usually means a text or email about something random, a news article, a joke, whatever works at the time.  Since we also co-parent well and see each other daily this does mean that I see my h quite a bit.  It can be very difficult to detach when you communicate regularly with MLC.   I have had to learn how to be friendly without reading too much into his behaviors (good or bad). That is obviously easier said than done.  I also realize that I have the luxury of a MLCer who is not abusive, who no longer does the monster spew, or does not taunt me with OW.  I have no problem with people choosing whatever contact level works for them as long as they choose it because it is right for them and not as a punishment to MLC for his/her bad behavior.

3.  I think the moderators are largely positive.  I have interacted with a few people here who I have felt were bitter but those are not necessarily the people who are divorced.  I think the term "bitter" is an interesting one.  For me I keep saying that I refuse to be bitter because then MLC has definitely won.  MLC can take my marriage and it can take my H and it can even take my identity of being married to my high school sweetheart but I will not allow it to take the essence of who I am!

[stayed]

1 - Whether standers should be the only ones who are on the HS forum?
2 -Whether NC (which as far as I can see - I really was never in) is a doomsday to a R?
3 - Is there a role for the "Bitter" divorced moderators on the forum?

I don't think most people realize that I lived with an MLCer for a good 6 years before I went to Europe.  I had a stay home, live in MLCer.  Admittedly, I was also going through menopause, so believe me, neither of us were a picnic to be with.

1.  Definitely not!  STANDERS/NON STANDERS/TOTALLY DONE/DIVORCED AGAINST THEIR WILL/ DIVORCED by PERSONAL CHOICE... all belong here! We need each other.  Bitter or compassionate, angry or accepting!  We all bring something special to the table, something that we ALL can benefit from.

2.  NC... Elray have I told you lately that I love you!  You say the most interesting things, in the most intriguing way.  I tend to agree, NC for codependent's is horrible.  I know, because I was codependent.  Strange eh, considering as my h was gone a good 1/3 of the year, yet somehow I managed to become codependent.  Lol.  I became addicted to PRAISE.  Oh Stayed, you are so strong.  You cope so well.  Is there anything you can't do.  Need I go on?  I couldn't do enough "things" to prove how capable and competent I was.  I brought so much of this on myself.  I see it all so clearly now. 

No contact, as InIt says... prevents further damage.  That I believe. I never went NC with my h, not completely.  AS Anjae said, I am one of the reconciled, who never completely broke contact.  My h went missing for the odd week or two, up to a month when he reneged on his last promise to return, then of course, ran off with OW for a month or so, before he again reconsidered.  I'm not sure which try it was, 4th. or maybe the 5th. was the charm... can't remember.  Still, we were in separate homes, hell separate countries... distance truly helped.  Being in separate countries for the last 18 months or so, really prevented any further damage.  Bottom line, I wish I had gone NC sooner. 

3.  If sad is bitter, then I guess we need "bitter moderators"!  There is no such thing on this forum.  The moderators do this for free.  It is their free time, that THEY give to this forum because they know what BD was like. Because they truly want to lessen the pain, or at the very least, reduce the length of time that the LBS suffers. 

They know that every person is unique and different.  They know the pain.  All they try to do, is help you CARRY it, as they know, nobody can lessen or take it away.  They all know, there is comfort in knowing others are there with you. 

I agree Hawk, we need more open discussion threads.  Is there a way that we can all be notified of one being started OP, so it is easily found?

Hugs Stayed