[kikki]

I've been reading with interest too about Robin Williams and dementia with Lewy bodies.

You've gathered some interesting cases there IANTE.

I haven't specifically heard of the ventromedial prefrontal cortex Velika, but have looked into prefrontal dementia. Many of the symptoms are a real fit for MLC too, except that most people do not function physically all that well after 10 years of the other symptoms appearing.

It's always amazed me to read of people believing that someone 'just' had a MLC when in fact it turned out to be a brain tumour, or some sort of dementia.  I want to ask what on earth they think MLC is then? To me it's always seemed a no brainer (pardon the pun) that something is seriously awry in their brain.  Especially a MLC of the severity that many of us have witnessed.
Still waiting for the science to catch up.

[1trouble]

Velika

I read with interest the article you added about ventromedial prefrontal cortex.

My therapist, as some may know is a Neuroscientist who felt that MLC was like Post natal depression and a chemical imbalance which suppresses parts of the brain, including the amygdala.

Its interesting to note this article talks about the amygdala.

I did a few searches on ventromedial prefrontal cortex and amygdala and found it very interesting.

I know the article you posted talks about legions and damage but if you take my therapists believe of a chemical imbalance in the same area of the brain it would make a lot of sense.  Because legions and damage would be permanent, meaning no chance of an 'awakening', yet as we know many MLC'ers awaken and come back, or at the very least contact the LBS years later.

The hardest thing we LBS's struggle with, IMO, is because this is not a recognised condition and therefore there is no formal recognition or diagnosis, we fight our own internal battles between knowing this is NOT the person we have known and loved all these years, yet having little or no acknowledgement from others close to us.

Sometimes, to me its as if I am the one who is going mad (or maybe that's not the right thing to say, maybe I should say the one with the problem).....as to the outside world its him moving on.........and me not being able to let go.

If my H had been diagnosed with a breakdown, then attitudes and support would be very different

[Velika]

1Trouble, I honestly believe it is a smoking gun. When I read this information, I realized: this has to be it. Everything is there. It explains everything. PTSD, projection, lack of empathy, poor decision making, inability to learn from mistakes, poor emotional regulation, gullibility, lack of irony -- even inability to read certain cues about the opposite sex. (An ability that theoretically might help stop someone from reading signs that a partner was unsuitable). This explains why my husband who had a really great and subtle sense of humor suddenly thought cat videos on YouTube are hilarious. (Some are, I know. I don't have MLC.)

There is a mention that serotonin can affect this region. I wondered if it was possible for inflammation to affect as well. The immune system is directly linked to the brain. I would like to contact a researcher to have them explore this further.

I had the same thought as you: in some people this is permanent, but in others it resolves more quickly. Rather than look at it as some "issue" or "process" the MLCer is working on, if this somehow flares up or the brain is able to recover, then it makes sense why some people would have more clarity, some might recover permanently, some might never recover, and some might only recover partially or relapse.

I 100 percent agree with you that this is one of the main problems. We sense that our spouse has had something happen to them, but have no name to put to it. If this is about the ventromedial prefrontal cortex and the article is correct, a person with a deficiency in this area can retain intellectual and even moral decision making abilities apart from their own choices. (Which is why a MLCer is not demonstrating across-the-board psychopathy.)

I believe my own husband (ex pretty much now) has a very extreme case. I think this is why it is noticeable to others. From your posts I feel that you are in a similar situation. It could be that people who are drawn to this aspect have also experienced more extreme versions and it is clearer therefore that this is not just psychological.

[Roma]

I'm well versed in disorders of the central nervous system (neurology) along with tests given by doctors in that region of the brain.

A year or two before BD, on his own H went to see many doctors and was prescribed tests to take to rule out and known illness.

Of course I really had no idea at the time why he was doing this. He had MRIs of every angle, cat scan even x-rays of his brain and everything came out normal. He wanted to find out what was wrong with him.

Since nothing abnormal was detected, that is when it was concluded he was having a MLC. Some look at it as a normal life transition, sort of like grown man puberty.

I suspect past childhood FOO issues determine the severity of the MLC, as well as hormone balances.

[Velika]

Scans are not reliable to diagnose mental illness. Many present overlapping systems. Also, I'm not sure that scans are routinely used to detect inflammation.

Here is an article: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-brain-scans-diagnose-mental-illness/

It was only recently confirmed by American researchers what older forms of medicine already knew, which was a brain-immune system connection. This is not something that is looked at in routine tests: https://news.virginia.edu/illimitable/discovery/theyll-have-rewrite-textbooks

Autism for example is a systemic disease. Patients with schizophrenia often improve when they take activated charcoal: http://kellybroganmd.com/case-gut-induced-mania/

If this were about FOO, then "MLC" would be more widespread because so many people have FOO. Also, it would not present with so many other symptoms, sudden and radical behavior and personality changes. Talk therapy -- or even love and concern of family -- would likely make a difference to at least some.

[Shocked]

My H told me he had changed. He recognized that something has happened to him. I found out recently that he was going to therapy for months before the BD. It would be interesting to know what he thought he needed to be treated for. We had have some financial and emotional set backs I truly think he took harder than I imagine resulting in a form of PTSD fueled by excessive drinking. Now in looking back, how long before BD do you think your spouses exhibited signs of MLC?

[Ready2Transform]

My H told me he had changed. He recognized that something has happened to him. I found out recently that he was going to therapy for months before the BD. It would be interesting to know what he thought he needed to be treated for. We had have some financial and emotional set backs I truly think he took harder than I imagine resulting in a form of PTSD fueled by excessive drinking. Now in looking back, how long before BD do you think your spouses exhibited signs of MLC?

The 18-36 month "entry" window RCR talks about fit for my xH for this biggest 180 flip. I think there were things before as well that were red flags (leans into the bipolar area). It is hard to gauge because really, all I can do is theorize. He did admit that he had "checked out" long before he said anything. He also got tests and spoke to professionals, and I can't discredit their expertise. I too have found disorders that fit (most notably Pyroluria, in my case, which not all doctors even see as a thing!). He was googling too for brain tumors and thyroid problems, so I know he was feeling lost time and fear. And some of these brain disorders fit. And personality disorders! But we all tick off for things on paper, so I can't take that past the theory point without a willing participant in going further to get and actual diagnosis. And the reality is, it's his health, and his responsibility. HIPA laws may have stopped me, but if I had a time machine and knew what I know now, I would have attended every doctor's appointment or psych appointment with him. I would have put myself in the loop, and made these doctors my allies. But as it is, I don't even know if they knew he was married. He lied about so much during that time, I only know he went to the appointments because I got the bills.  But that proves right there that even WITH help, there's little that can be done if they are unwilling.

[Thunder]

Ready,

Mine knew also.  I found out after bd he had been ordering different over the counter mood drugs.  One being St. John's Wart.
He also ordered self help books through Amazon.  One was about self help for Social Anxiety, on was to help you find your happiness, or something like that.

So I can see he knew something was wrong but had no idea what to do about it.

I did talk to our doctor (which they welcome btw) and when I told him how strange he was acting he was concerned because it could have been a brain tumor.

Lastly, one night after he had done something SO out of character for him I said.."This is just not like you!"  He looked at me and said.."Yeah, well I don't feel like me anymore."

All I can say is, I personally think, with my H it was more hormonal than anything else.  After 3 years his hot flashes, depression and anxiety started to lift, slowly.  Still see some confusion sometimes but that's about it.  Could testosterone replacement have helped him?  I'll never know.

But I still don't consider MLC a mental illness.  I think it's a combination of several things.  FOO issues, hormones, debt problems, avoidance personality, death of a loved one, etc..

To who ever (sorry can't remember) said, if it's caused by FOO issues then why doesn't everyone with a bad childhood have a MLC, I think it may be because some people have an avoidance type personality, some people don't handle stress well.  Might just be a personality thing.  The inability to handle stress.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

It isn't just plain vanilla FOO issues. A lot of it also has to do with attachment and abandonment issues from childhood, stressful and traumatic events that occurred during childhood, and the effect these have on the developing brain. The end result can vary greatly depending on where the child is in the developmental cycle when these things happen.

http://www.drdansiegel.com/books/the_developing_mind/

[Thunder]

I agree, MB.

Also I remember reading a story about some woman who had multiple personalities.  Yet her sister, a year older, was perfectly fine.
Both grew up in the exact same horrible environment.

After studying the 2 of them they found the one sister who turned out fine was more of a fighter.  She fought back when things happened and could shrug them off.  The one with multiple personalities was very meek and internalized everything that was done to her.
2 different personalities, 2 different outcomes.