Author Topic: My Story Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over  (Read 3022 times)

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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My Story Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« on: April 27, 2016, 05:34:13 PM »
I've been reading everyone's stories and comments on this board for a couple of months now, and I've found it both depressing and enlightening.  It's remarkable how much in common we all have at least as far as how our MCLers are concerned.  I've been debating whether or not I should share my own story, since I didn't think it would add too much to the discussion.  But I'm at the point now where I'd legitimately like some advice, so hopefully by sharing my experiences some of you more experienced LBS's can give me some pointers.  Or at least assure me that it gets better, because honestly right now I find that almost impossible to believe.

My wife and I have been married for almost 15 years.  We were married in June in Spain, weeks before we both ended our time in the U.S. Navy.  We returned to the states and got started on LIFE together.  For a while it was great.  We were newlyweds and even though we were poor, we were in it together and each challenge was one that we faced as a team.  Eventually we went to college and graduated, again at almost the exact same time.  After graduation we moved up to Alaska, where we are currently living.

Our time in Alaska has been rocky.  We've been up here for nearly 10 years and our marriage has not been perfect by any means.  I always thought it was salvageable, just like most people here.  We had two children, who are now five and seven years old.  This seemed to distract my wife for a time and keep her from totally flaming out. 

I have had a drinking problem for many years and a little over two years ago (January of 2014) got my second DUI, which caused me to completely turn over a new leaf, and literally changed my life.  Since that time I have been actively working on myself and our marriage.  I believe that this change was (oddly) the catalyst for my wife's MLC.  I think that until I made that change she was kept busy enough with my shenanigans and the kids that she really couldn't get up to too much trouble.

She only works part time, and both kids are now in school full time.  In the summer months they are in full-time day care.  She has a LOT of spare time.  This caused her to get antsy and get into all kinds of new hobbies.  The vast majority of them were things that I was interested in as well, and for a time it seemed like we were going to go on this journey together.  She got into hunting, fishing, bought herself an extremely expensive ATV (around $11K).  What I did not know at the time but have since discovered is that these were things that her PA was into, and thus she got interested.  I did not find out about this affair until after it was over.  Long story short, that affair fizzled out and for about a year or so, we were getting better.  Working on our marriage, going on little adventures together, raising our daughters...basically just living like a married couple.  We rarely had sex, which worried me but I was trying so hard to reconnect to her as a wife that I honestly thought that it would come in time.  She upgraded her ATV to a very expensive model - around $15K and began to go on rides alone or with friends 2 or 3 times a week.

Then things began to get really difficult.  She was very detached, remote, hostile some times.  She would go away all day with friends, doing the exact same thing she always did, riding her stupid ATV along a trial system by a river by Anchorage.  She often treated me like a 3rd wheel, even when around friends that we had known for years.  In October of last year I finally sat her down and said, "What the heck is going on?  What are you doing?"  She looked me in the eye and said, "I want a divorce".  I consider that to be BD day, because until then I honestly had no idea that things were that bad.  I pressed her for her reasons, and they seemed completely ridiculous to me at the time.  I hadn't done any reading about MLC's at the time so I was mystified.  It basically came down to her wanting to do more adventurous things, even though we have a busier 'fun' life than ANYONE I know who has kids and normal jobs.  Everyone I know constantly tells me they are amazed at all the things our family gets up to.  But basically she said that she felt like she didn't get to get out enough and play.  My response was, why can't you do that and still be married?  How am I keeping you from doing that?  Why do we need to get a divorce so that you can (essentially) ride your ATV more often?  She was dumbstruck at this (honestly...this is how little she thinks things out now) and we decided to not be hasty, let her have even more freedom and see what happened.

Fast forward a few more months, until January of this year.  She met her SECOND PA guy, and this affair basically happened right in front of me.  She told me when she first met him, said that it was totally innocent and that he was just a friend who happened to own a plane (not that unusual in Alaska) and that he had offered to give her a ride in it sometime.  Again, not that terribly unusual, but something that we had always talked about doing TOGETHER as a fun experience.  I told her at the time that I had misgivings about it and it seemed like a recipe for disaster.  But she insisted that it was innocent and that she just wanted to see what it was like.  First time she rode in his plane, she came home a bit after dinner time and talked about how it was not that exciting and was almost like riding in a van in the sky or something. 

A few weeks later, she had had a rough couple of days with one of our girls who was sick at the time.  She had let the other daughter stay home so that they were all together.  I suggested that maybe she take the afternoon off, go to dinner with some friends or just relax in the house and take a bath.  I told her I'd make dinner, etc and she could just relax.  She texted me five minutes later and said that she was going on a plane ride with her friend.  Right away I knew that this was trouble.  It was highly unlike her to leave the kids in the house alone, and here it was 3:30 and I wouldn't be home for another 2 hours.  I KNEW in my heart that something was going to happen.  Sure enough, didn't hear from her ALL NIGHT until around 2:30 am, when I got a text from her saying that she was too tired to drive home and was going to stay out at his place.  We had a huge fight the next night, then a couple of days of very limited contact.  She then tearily confessed to me that she didn't know what she was doing and she was so sorry, she just didn't understand herself.  I thought, ok MAYBE this can be worked on.  15 years of marriage, two kids, and a home seem like a whole lot to throw away over someone acting the a$$ for a few weeks.

This was February.  My life since then has been an absolutely miserable rollercoaster.  One day she wants to stay and work things out, then she wants a divorce, then she doesn't know what she wants.  In order to give her space I suggested what I called a "carte blanche month", basically an entire month where she could do what she wanted with no repercussions from me - kind of an extended kitchen pass.  None of you more experienced people will be surprised to hear that at the end of that month, she was literally no further along in her mental or emotional journey than she had been at the beginning, even though she spent about half of it outside of the house. 

Over time things seemed (amazingly) to be getting better, very very slightly.  However I began to notice a cycle.  Things would get better, then she would drop some kind of emotional hand grenade.  Then things would slowly right themselves, then another hand grenade.  She had a long weekend trip planned to Arizona to visit a work friend who had moved (a woman), and immediately after that time I had a week-long trip planned to visit my father in Cleveland.  In between we only saw each other for a few minutes at the airport.  Before I left the house for the airport I had written her a long letter, explaining how I felt about her and my hopes for reconciliation and a future life together.  She sent me a text after she read it saying that even though she didn't think we had any "passion" in our marriage (no duh, after 15 years of marriage, we were not like teenagers) she did love me, loved our daughters, I mentally stimulated her, and that was enough for now.  "I will stay" were her words.

After my week in Cleveland, I got back home to learn that she had in fact continued to see her guy, the man who I can only refer to as her boyfriend at this point.  I mean they've known each other for three months now.  It was a very cold ride home from the airport.  We had an argument that night after we put the girls to bed, which led to me sleeping upstairs in a spare bedroom.  She again said that she wanted a divorce, and this time (for the first time) she added the bomb that she wanted ME to be the one that moved out, and that she would stay in our home with the girls.  I was absolutely at a loss.  I was exhausted from flying from Cleveland to Alaska and had no emotional energy to deal with what she was telling me.  I remember saying to her, "You are taking everything from me.  You are ruining my life.  How can you not see how cruel this all is?"  Typical MLC response, she saw my weakness and just stuck it in.  Finally I gathered my work clothes and went up to our spare room.  Around midnight she told me that she was devastated, and couldn't I sleep in our bed with her one more night?  I tried to do so but after about ten seconds, I just told her, "I can't do this, you were with him 48 hours ago.  I know that this is hard, but you're the one who's doing it."

The next night, as is our pattern, we had a much more civil discussion and I basically laid out a lot of things that I've learned from all the reading I've been doing.  Not about MLC in general, but more about re-igniting passion in a long term marriage, the concept of limerance, and how I thought her family's dismal record with marriage might be leading to her behavior.  She seemed very receptive and we were at least able to be friendly again.  I've been sleeping in our bed since then, and so has she.  No physical contact beyond the usual hugs or such.

That was last Thursday.  Last night, Tuesday, she spent the night with him again.  I feel like this is the beginning of the end.  I know that we are probably days out from her saying that she either wants to move out and try living apart for a while, or wants a divorce and that I need to move out.  I have been doing a lot of reading on these forums and I've come to a decision on the only two things that I think I have control over: 1) I will not file for a divorce, and 2) I will not move out of my house.

I am sorry that this is so long.  I am at a total loss and my brain just keeps getting hung up on how unnecessary this all is.  Literally everything that she's ever said that she doesn't like about our marriage, can be fixed (and fixed relatively easily) with just a bit of work.  Certainly more work than she's putting in to destroying it!  I know that I need to get to an acceptance state, and I don't see that happening for a LOOOONG time.  Months at least.  I'm also trying very hard to detach but she's been my best friend for so many years (or at least I thought of her that way) that it is tough for me to think of doing things without her.  I guess I have to now, whether I want to or not.  And I have been, at least over the past few months while she's been on this ridiculous, destructive journey.  I am constantly planning outings with my kids and keeping myself as busy as I can.  But I'm very slowly coming to the realization that nothing I do will impact the course she's set for herself.

Thanks for reading my story, and thanks in advance for any suggestions or kind words you might have.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline LearningIamOk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2016, 06:24:06 PM »
akjomsviking, welcome to the place that no one wants to be. I am sorry you are here, but happy that you have found us. We will help you to navigate your way. Your W seems highly confused, typical. I agree with your stance that you will not move out. SHE is the one who is unhappy and wants change, she needs to be the one who leaves.

Set strong boundaries now while she is so confused. It seems to set the pace for them to be Clingers. Clingers seem to reconcile more easily. I know you are devastated and fearful of anything that would push her away, but stand your ground. I remember being terrified that things I would do would push my xH further away. In hindsight, I see that when I told him just how it was going to be, he became fearful and closer. I couldn't keep that strength up as fear over took me. I wish I had. We might still be married.

Right now, keep working on yourself. I applaud you for doing so much work already concerning your drinking. Stay as calm and stable as you can for your girls. You will be the one teaching them how to deal with the ups and downs of life.
trying2bok

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 08:47:53 PM »
Thanks so much Learning.  All of the people and their stories/suggestions on these forums have been such a help.to me already.  Really just knowing that I'm not the only one going through this, that I'm not crazy, has made a huge difference.  Little things like, how MLC'ers will suddenly talk about their life and marriage in the past as ALL bad, or the sudden mood changes or new obsessions...all of it is totally mystifying. 

One question that I have is, are there any effective ways to set boundaries?  I hear people say that on these threads all the time.  How do you set boundaries with someone who you literally have no control over?  I mean they ACT like a teenager, but they're not actually one.  You can't tell them what/what not to do.  Any concrete examples of how to do that?  Thanks in advance.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline Shadoe

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 08:59:04 PM »
Hi Ak,


I am sorry you find yourself here, but you will find a lot of information and support.


Boundaries are for you not the MLCer, if I remember correctly, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, they are to protect yourself and your children if you have them. You can't control what the MLCer will do but you can control what you are willing to accept from them. Some of the first advice I was given when I got here was protect yourself and your kids. Emotionally, physically and financially. Focus on you and leave them to do what they are going to do. You can't stop them and you can't help them. This is all about them.


Essentially they are a teenager again, not in age but in mentality. MLCer will regress to early times. You may see several children and well as the teenage behaviors.
And so she took the patches of her life and sewed them together to make wings.

Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. ~Albert Einstein

Not my Circus, Not my monkeys. But if you're either going to force them on me or leave me to deal with them, don't be surprised when I give you back monkey carcasses.

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 09:32:21 PM »
Good Evening,

If I may toss out a few things about boundaries from my thoughts :

Boundaries are not about controlling someone else per se.  They are about you, perhaps like a fence, they protect you from unwanted intrusions.  They don't keep your wife fenced inside like the bars of a jail cell.

When selecting a boundary and resultant action, be sure, very darn sure,  you are willing to follow through if challenged or the boundary means nothing.

So for a concrete example-my then husband began calling on the phone and screaming at me.  He would scream steadily for oh say 20 minutes about how awful I was, how he hated me and wished I were dead. I got tired of that pretty quickly.  I told him if he called and screamed I would hang up.  So the next day he called and began screaming.  Very calmly I reminded him of my boundary.  "I told you if you called and screamed I was hanging up, so now I'm hanging up."  Click I hung up.  Well we did this about six more times before he got the message to not scream. 

Second example :  I told him "You will not telephone OW from my home or you will find you and your fruit of the looms on the curb."  He tried it once.  I calmly walked by him and out to the curb carrying a laundry basket of his clothes and dumped it on the curb.  Never happened again.

Third example :  He had a habit of spending large amounts of time explaining to me why we couldn't be together.  After a while that became rather tedious.  I began getting up and moving to another room.  The first evening I did it with consistency we he followed me around each room of the house,twice through the garage, once into the attic, and ended on the porch before it finally sunk in.

All the action was my responsibility.  I followed through each and every time. 

Consistency, no empty threats, protect yourself.  Not imprison her or she will try like any good POW to escape (POW-prisoner of war )

For protection and sanity and respect, not fatherly punishment for a bad child.

Hope it helps a bit !

Has spring come to Alaska ?

LP
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline lawprofessor

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 09:38:40 PM »
Oh and be selective in what you make as to a boundary.  Is the thing important ?   Does it protect you in some way ?  Is it to punish her or protect you?   Be brutally honest with yourself and your motives.  Simple and direct is best.
if people won’t listen to you, there’s no point in talking to people. If they won’t listen, you’re just banging your head against a wall.

Sadly Ive used up all the time I had allotted to spend banging my head on the wall

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 11:15:26 PM »
Welcome to the Board

You are in a good place.
Your H/W  is on his/her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your H/W space  he/she needs to heal himself/herself.

I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.

Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your H/W.

He/She has given you a gift.
It is time!!

Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.

Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for H/W.
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.

Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.

Detach. - The single most important thing you can do

The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.

Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html

http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

Do you want a mentor?

Please make a post that says so and
If so one will be assigned shortly.

Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 11:55:10 PM »
Thanks for all the recommendations.  Right now she's at home.  We went to dinner tonight, all four of us (me, my wife, and the girls).  It was very nice to have the family together.  I'm at a total loss here.  I have no real roadap.for how to proceed.  I know that it would be best for my girls and all of us really if we could stay together and work it out.  Our culture tells me that I need to freak out and blow up the marriage, maybe confront the OM and have some kind of confrontation.  My family (I've been talking to my dad and sister through lots of this) think I should just file for divorce and get it over with.  I just don't know what to do.  I try to take the high road and be the better man as well as I can.  Tonight I told her that it was good to have all four of us in the house together, and she said, "Thank you for always leaving the door open for me to return.  And not changing the locks."  I told her that she will always have a path back to me.  I just left it at that.  Tried to keep it simple and light, like you all suggest.  Trying to hang on to my sanity and be the better man at the same time is HARD sometimes.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline LearningIamOk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2016, 04:19:24 AM »
ak, please ignore what is culturally expected. This is your life and your kids' lives in the balance. You get to choose and not be dictated to how to proceed. What can you live with? You need to be able to look yourself in the mirror and have no regrets. MLC takes a really loooonnnnggg time. People in real life (IRL) don't understand. Try not to talk a lot about it. Most people's responses are kick-em-to-the-curb. Their motivation is normal, they want to see you out of pain. The pain does not stop because of a D.

Standing is a Limbo, or Grace Period, where all you have to do is heal. Take your Journey. Take your time. She seems to still want to be there on some level. She recognizes that the door is open. That's huge.

Lawprofessor has given you some great advice.
trying2bok

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2016, 08:28:11 AM »
Thank you trying.  I think I see what you mean, to take this time that I'm standing and instead of just waiting for her to eventually come around, instead focus on myself and my girls and not obsess over my wife's behavior.  It gets exhausting sometimes, heck it gets exhausting almost all the time really.

I agree that their motivation seems to be to see my pain alleviated.  But the way I put it to my dad the other day, in the hopes of explaining to him why I wasn't going to file for divorce, was: what kind of a victory would it be for me to file?  I don't want a divorce.  That would be terrible for all four of us.  If she files for a divorce, then that's a bridge I'll have to cross when I come to it.  But for now, she's not emotionally abusive (other than the affair), she's sweet with the girls when she's here, she's not running up any more huge debts.  Basically this is something that I can live with for the time being.  Who knows how I'll feel next month of course.

Like I said, my major focus right now needs to be detach, GAL, and keep tensions low in the house.  My IT has not recommended divorce to me a single time, in fact his recommendation to me yesterday was to not escalate tensions in the house and let the affair run its course.  His words: "I know this is unfair.  This is not fair to you at all.  But at this point you need to shoulder more of the responsibilities of the marriage."  Tough advice. 

Whatever happens, I'm coming out of the other side of this as a much better man.  I haven't had a drink in over two years and physically I feel like I did when I was 30.  But man this is hard on the heart.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline Thunder

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2016, 11:59:09 AM »
First of all ak, congratulations on your sobriety!   ;D
Great job!

I have to say you are a quick study.  You researched MLC, read stories and you applied some of the best of the best.
You have set good boundaries, not moving out, not pressuring, not initiating a D, GAL, and you are treating her kindly.  All good.

Unfortunately there are no roadmaps or magic wands to help you navigate this horror.
You'll find things that help and things that don't help but they will be individual to you and your circumstances.

You must have paved the way pretty good for her to thank you for not closing the door on her.  That's important.
You don't want to be a doormat but there is nothing wrong with treating her with respect and caring.
We have to keep in mind, sometimes, this is no picnic for them either.

We all suffer when MLC hits.
Are your kids doing ok?
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2016, 01:09:11 PM »
Thanks for the kind words Thunder.  They seem to be doing ok.  That's the most positive word that I'd use to describe how they're dealing with this.  Every now and then - like maybe once a week or so - they'll mention how she's never around, or that they miss her.  She is still living in the house, hasn't moved out, but she is gone a LOT and they've started to notice.  When she is around she is very present with the girls.  I think that she feels like she needs to make up for being gone so much.  What I'm most worried about is that the kids are going to grow up watching parents who do not have a normal, affectionate relationship.  I'm afraid that might mess them up when they're older.  But I suppose that's something that I'll just watch for and try and manage when the time comes.

The strangest thing about this is how MLCers will vacillate between such extremes all the time.  It would be like every other time I went into work, I thought, "Today might be my last day.  If my boss looks at me the wrong way, I'm quitting!"  Then the next day, I'd just not even think about it!  Craziness.  It's totally exhausting living with someone who you literally have to take day by day.  I suppose that's why you all preach detachment.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline Thunder

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2016, 01:19:06 PM »
Very true, ak.  Detacting is hard and it takes a long time but when you get there its like you have a Teflon shield over your heart.  Things they say or do just kind of slide off.

You know none of it is true or real.  Their just in a very bad place, mentally.
Living with them makes it harder but it does have it's benefits.   Any good mirror work you do, they notice.
They do watch you.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2016, 08:47:19 PM »
Hello Viking,

I will call you this because my other MLC half is actually scandinavian, therefore, a Viking!!

Kudos to you for being sober!
Kudos for you for the way you are handling this situation! you are true saint!!!
Kudos for you for the way u are trying so hard to keep your family together!
Kudos to you for the way u are still loving towards your wife even if u know she has O/M.

I don't know if you pray or what gives you this amazing strength, but you would be MY rock!!! you are her ROCK too and she obviously knows it!!! she even thanked you for keeping that emotional door open for her.

You are an amazing man and know , in my opinion, that even if she may move out , you have done all the right things . Unfortunately in this state of mind, they need to make their own mistakes and face their demons. Once the face these monsters inside themselves, they will fall and crumble. Unfortunately it is all a journey that they have to face on their own. You cannot help. There is nothing harder than loving someone so much and watch them destroying their lives. Loving them and detaching at the same time is hard. I have been in this mess for almost 3 yrs, and Im still trying to wrap my thoughts around this concept. There are days that I seem to cope better, and days that i simply fall back down again  (today, was that day).

You seem a good , good, good man. Truly, you do. Again, you are a saint. My heart keeps breaking when I read stories of strong husbands and wives who love so much, in such unconditional way that they are willing to accept this crap because we know this is not who they are and it is simply a phase. In my situation, my other half has completely vanished from the face of the earth. He could literally be on a secret mission or truly being abducted by aliens and took him to another galaxy. I have nothing but SILENCE around me. The only feeling that I have is my strong "gut feeling": to hung on. I have been so ridiculed even by closest friends that they think I'm pretty much delusional that i just haven't accepted the situation and I refuse to see that he simply left me. Again, people who suggest you divorce and to "move on with your life " (oh I hate those words "move on" ) have no clue about MLCer. Thats why I have shut myself down. I don't talk about it to anyone. I live an lonely existence because this MLC isolates you from other people who simply don't get it. I can explain all day long what MLC is about, until I turn blue in my face.....but nothing. This isn't easy Viking. Not only you are going through the crap that your wife may be moving out for O/M , furthermore you have to suffer ( i know I do) the humiliation from neighbors and family who are full of demands and curiosity.

This is tough road. This is one of the thing that u hear about it so much , but u don't really know what it is until it happens to you. Im not here to throw sunshine on you because first, it is painful. Second, you already know what u need to do , third....u seem to be a very strong man. I have been in Alaska before (by myself exploring ) and it is a tough place to live. Majestic but with its challenges. U have a very tough skin. U come across as a very strong man who keeps it together for yourself, and for your girls. If it is any consolation, even if your wife may decide to move out and seek "happiness" with another man, it will not happen. Inside she is miserable and she is aching so much. Unfortunately she needs to deal with her demons . Please believe that THE GRASS IS NOT GREENER AT ALL ON THE OTHER SIDE.

Continue being strong. I think u are doing all the right things. You come across as such a wonderful husband and father, with so much love and so much patience. You are amazing and I hope you KNOW IT, no matter what outcome will be.

I don't know if u are a man of Faith. Please pray for her , if u are. Just like my mom keeps reminding me: " Honey, you have done everything in your power . Now this is in the hands of God. At least, you can go to bed peaceful and when you look yourself in the mirror , you have nothing to feel remorseful or ashamed of ".

So I pass these words into you, and in this way,  i will end this post. It is my wish for you to have PEACE inside your heart.

Stay  strong,

Hp.
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2016, 10:01:15 AM »
Thank you so much HoldingPattern.  What wonderful sentiments.  Yes this road we walk is a lonely one, and I am quickly coming to the conclusion that no one who has not seen it can truly understand how difficult the MLC is.  You see glimmers of hope every now and then, and that's what keeps you holding on.  Last night I had to go to work and while I was there my wife helped my oldest daughter learn how to ride a bike!  She sent me pictures while I was at work and even a little video of my daughter riding her bike.  So these things give me hope.

A really difficult thing that I'm dealing with is that my wife is very reserved and doesn't share her feelings even in the best of times.  So it is very, very difficult to read her mood.  I think that detaching will really help with this because if I ever get to that place, it simply won't matter to me anymore what she happens to be thinking at any given moment.  Or maybe it's not that it won't matter, but MY mood and feelings won't depend on it so much anymore.

Thanks again for the kind words.  What you wrote was EXACTLY what I needed to hear this morning.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2016, 12:56:10 PM »
OK, I need the advice / kindness of the folks on this board right about now.

My wife just texted me and told me that she intends to go riding (i.e., ATV riding) tonight and then go to a bonfire, and she won't be home until the morning.  That is code for her spending the night with OM.  Then she said that she is planning ANOTHER camping trip for tomorrow night, with our kids and a friend of ours with her kids.  She said that I was totally welcome to come with them camping tomorrow night, but also welcome to stay home and take a break if I'd like (?).

This is her classic pattern that I've been seeing for the past five or six months.  Any time things get even a TINY bit better, she throws an emotional hand grenade into the marriage to blow it apart again.  We had some friends over last night, had a little fire in the fire pit in our backyard, it was very friendly and congenial.  I went to work for an hour or so last night and she sent me texts and videos of my daughter riding her bike.  This morning things were actually cheerful in the house before I left for work.  She sent me a couple of texts talking about how nice it was for us to have had those friends over last night, how it would be cool to invite some other friends over sometime for dinner.  And now this!

How in the world can a sane, 41 year old woman do something like this and not realize how abusive it is?  We've been married for 15 years.  Do they truly not consider at ALL how their spouses feel about all this?

So I'm asking you all - should I try and go camping with her and my kids tomorrow night?  Is this one of the areas where I should back off and give her space?  I am at a loss, honestly.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2016, 01:01:00 PM »
I also have some things that I need to take care of tomorrow, which she knows about.  It's fairly typical of her to plan something like this camping trip that she KNOWS that I'd normally like to do, but plan it on a day when I've got things that I actually need to take care of.  So I can rush through getting my things done, probably still making everyone late to leave for the camping trip, and spend some time with her and the kids 'making memories.'  Or I can tell her to just go ahead and take them, I'll stay home and take care of my stuff, but does this further re-affirm her thoughts about me not ever doing 'fun stuff'?

Now that I'm typing this out, I realize that it really doesn't matter what I do.  I could go with them tomorrow night, I could tell them to go ahead while I stay home, I could flame out and cause a scene...none of it really matters, does it?  She's going to do what she's going to do.  And this is truly the hardest thing about living with someone in MLC.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2016, 01:09:27 PM »
Viking,

Id like to ask you: what would u like to do ? do you want to go camping with her? do you think it would make a difference? HOW DO YOU REALLY FEEL???? what do you want???
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2016, 01:26:02 PM »
Viking,

Id like to ask you: what would u like to do ? do you want to go camping with her? do you think it would make a difference? HOW DO YOU REALLY FEEL???? what do you want???

Honestly, I'd like to go camping with her and my kids.  I love them like crazy (of course) and despite all she's done, I still love her and enjoy spending time with her.

I suppose I'm worried about a couple of things:

1. This sets a precedent that she can go off with OM one night, then spend the next night with me and the kids like that is normal or sane
2. She's intending to leave soon and is just trying to do some fun things as a family until that time

She is NOT a sharer...she is not like some of the MLCers that you all describe where she rants and raves and complains about how terrible her life is.  In fact it is hard to get her to share anything at all.  So I kind of have to guess a lot of the time as to what her motivations are.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2016, 01:27:37 PM »
How in the world can a sane, 41 year old woman do something like this and not realize how abusive it is?  We've been married for 15 years.
 Do they truly not consider at ALL how their spouses feel about all this?
Why do you think she is sane?

MLC is not playing the same game as you are,
think OPPOSITE, then you are closer to being right on target.

Aliens have taken over her body and are controlling her mind,
she looks the same but nothing else about her is what you
So I'm asking you all - should I try and go camping with her and my kids tomorrow night?  Is this one of the areas where I should back off and give her space?  I am at a loss, honestly.might think.

How are you doing reading the stuff I gave you in my first post?

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2016, 01:32:23 PM »
I read most of it.  It makes sense to me but of course applying it to real life is obviously hard for me at this point.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2016, 01:44:36 PM »
Now that I'm typing this out, I realize that it really doesn't matter what I do.  I could go with them tomorrow night, I could tell them to go ahead while I stay home, I could flame out and cause a scene...none of it really matters, does it?  She's going to do what she's going to do.  And this is truly the hardest thing about living with someone in MLC.
Sorry but this pretty well sums it up.

How in the world can a sane, 41 year old woman do something like this and not realize how abusive it is?  We've been married for 15 years.  Do they truly not consider at ALL how their spouses feel about all this?
Sorry but your wife is not sane. The courts would consider her sane, even the psychiatric community would consider her sane, but she isn't. Her brain has been turned inside out by MLC. One of the first things to go is the ability to empathize. Your feelings don't matter. It's going to be all about her.

One other thing you should know is that MLC causes compulsive behaviors. She'll do things even when it seems like she doesn't want to because she won't be able to help herself. She'll be compelled to do it.

The best thing for you to do about the camping trip is to do whatever you think will be best for you and the children. I would try to maintain a civil relationship with your wife as much as possible as part of paving the way so that later, if she feels like returning to the relationship, she might be more comfortable doing so but short term your actions probably aren't going to change anything.

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2016, 02:06:13 PM »
OldPilot, I went back through and re-read some of those posts on detachment.  Thanks by the way for including all of those in your post and signature block.

MyBrainIsBroken, I understand what you're saying.  Yes you're right, she's not really sane because she can't empathize with me (anyone?) right now.  At least not to any significant degree.  I'm sure on some level she knows that what she's doing is *&^%-ed up and she's probably feeling some pangs of guilt every now and then, but really it's what we do that matters, not what we think.

OK, well I've decided that I'm going to go tomorrow on the trip.  I think it will be good to spend the time with my girls and (weirdly) with my wife as well.  Also I love camping and the place they're talking about going is a lot of fun.

My culture tells me that I should be so angry at her for what she's doing that I won't even be able to look at her.  But is that actually true?  And if I let myself get to that state, will it actually achieve what I want?

I think and hope that if I focus on and practice detachment, I will get to a point that her behavior no longer dictates my feelings.  I've made a decision to stay married to her despite her infidelity.  Why would her continuing infidelity make me question or threaten that decision?  Perhaps some day she will 'come out' of her tunnel and see what she's been doing.  Perhaps she never will. 
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2016, 02:11:53 PM »
OldPilot, I went back through and re-read some of those posts on detachment.  Thanks by the way for including all of those in your post and signature block.

Keep Reading and learning - it really will help YOU!

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2016, 02:19:27 PM »
Viking,

sounds like you are ready in your mind for any outcome in this event. So, since you enjoy your kids so much and you sound like great father and always want to be there: go camping by all means. U are smart enough to know not to have any hopes up in this camping outing with your wife. No expectations:  you are totally prepared for. Sounds to me like you don't need advice from anyone, but you answer yourself already. Just go and enjoy the kids. Always follow your heart. For now is about the kids, you will have plenty time later to detach some more....
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2016, 02:30:11 PM »
Viking,

sounds like you are ready in your mind for any outcome in this event. So, since you enjoy your kids so much and you sound like great father and always want to be there: go camping by all means. U are smart enough to know not to have any hopes up in this camping outing with your wife.

Thanks for that vote of confidence HoldingPattern, but to be brutally honest with all of you I'm NOT really ready for any outcome in this event.  Well maybe I am, but I will say that I am fervently hoping for one outcome over another. 

My hopes might be totally foolish but (baring my soul here) I hope that in time she will come out of her MLC and realize what she's jeapordizing, and turn back towards our marriage again.  Maybe that will never happen.  But I hope it does.

But I'm going to take a page out of what I've learned in AA and say: one day at a time.  I have no idea (and it doesn't really matter) if I'll be fine with this six months from now, or a year.  What matters is that I am 100% positive that I can be fine with it today.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2016, 02:59:21 PM »
My hopes might be totally foolish but (baring my soul here) I hope that in time she will come out of her MLC and realize what she's jeapordizing, and turn back towards our marriage again.  Maybe that will never happen.  But I hope it does".

Viking, there is nothing foolish about this!!! thats love! thats called UNCONDITIONAL LOVE!! Thats what we are doing here in this forum  ! most of us - or those who have not given up yet - want so much the same thing as you. Please don't ever say you are foolish. You are far from it.

YOU SIMPLY WANT YOUR WIFE BACK. Nothing wrong with that!! I know, Im proud of you!!!
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2016, 07:28:11 PM »
I would have decided to go on the camping trip too. Your wife is still friendly so it should be a good experience for your kids which will be good because they may have some not so good ones coming, depending on how your wife's MLC progresses. Plus, MLCers tend to rewrite history and convince themselves that life with the LBS wasn't good so if it goes well it wil be a chance to make a positive memory.

My pastor gave me some good advice. He said to always focus on the end goal and when you have a decision to make ask yourself what will bring you closer to your end goal. Of course, sometimes the answer to that question isn't clear and you have to pray about it or go with your gut instinct or simply do what you feel is best for you and the children.

I hope you have a good trip.

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 02:23:55 PM »
Well the camping trip is off.  The weather turned bad and the family we were going to go with didn't feel like camping in the cold.  So instead we're going to grill out here at the house, have a fire in the fire pit, etc.  Should be fun.

Wife has been very cold since she got back this morning, typical behavior from her after she leaves OM.  Now that I've been paying more attention to these payterns, they're becoming more predictable.  Hopefully we still have a nice evening with our friends and family.  If nothing else the kids should be happy since they'll get to see their friends.  :)  always great to see my kids playing with other kids.  Reminds me what's important, and why I'm putting up with all this. 
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 02:47:14 PM »
Viking, you are a true saint. Where is the emoticon here...the one with the halo in the head??? i can't find it...otherwise , i would put it next to your name.

Honestly, i don't think i would be capable to put it up with such facade in front of other people, even for the sake of the kids. It reminds me when last time i saw my S/O on Thanksgiving 2014, he has the audacity to go visit another family and expected me to go . I told him that he was welcome to go by himself. I was not going to pretend to  myself or others. Days later, after the left, the family he went to visit contacted me and they just knew there was something off about him/about us. They were right because they know me better. Again, I could  not fake my way through.

Your kids must be so special and important for you to put up with this bull crap. You are truly a good man, and u don't deserve this $h!te!! (well, none of us does..) .

HP .
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #30 on: April 30, 2016, 03:02:59 PM »
Viking, you are a true saint. Where is the emoticon here...the one with the halo in the head??? i can't find it...otherwise , i would put it next to your name.

Ha ha...honestly I am not.  I have just found over the years that my go-to reactions to a lot of situations have not yielded the results that I wanted.  So for instance when I want to freak out, yell at her, expose her to her friends/family...I know very well that it will not get me closer to my goal.  Sometimes, especially when I'm working out and listening to heavy metal, I notice that my mind wanders to all the ways that I could work to get her back, to get to the OM, whatever.  None of that is healthy thinking and I just let it go out of my mind as soon as it appears. 

Most of the time I just feel really sad that what could have been such a wonderful life may very well be ruined, and she's not even self-aware enough to recognize that.  Such a tragedy.  If I didn't have kids I would have left long ago, just out of sheer frustration and anger.  But if there's even the slightest chance that we might weather this storm, I will eat crow for as long as it takes.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #31 on: April 30, 2016, 03:27:33 PM »
Viking:

you are a beautiful strong man. I would give you a big hug for your courage , love , devotion and endurance.

How is it possible that we see how amazing you are, but she doesn't???? Yeah I know, MLC $h!te....

Your mind is healthy, and thats really the way we are supposed to train ourselves: the moment those bad thoughts surface, try to do whatever it takes to get them out of our heads. You are right: sometimes -not always , i have to be honest here- I'm very capable of doing that, but not always. I kill those thoughts while they are stillborn. Sometimes the Devil truly wants to get in my head with all sorts of evil thoughts....I reach out for my little cross in my neckless and ask to please make it stop.


Like you, when at the gym i listen to hard rock (not heavy metal, but something truly hardcore)  The louder, the better, the more i run , and the harder i run.

U wrote that you would have left long time ago if it wasnt for the kids. Im not you, therefore i cannot judge you or know how your mind think. But I'm not so sure about that. One thing is clear: i don't believe you  are here just for the kids. You DO LOVE YOUR WIFE. U want her back , u want her soul back, u want her love back, you want her "essence" back . You just want that woman who u married. Your love for her is strong and so fierce, that Im not really sure if u are here just for the kids. There is obviously something MORE that keeps you there, after all you wrote it yourself :
"  But if there's even the slightest chance that we might weather this storm, I will eat crow for as long as it takes.".

Viking: you are truly a good man. U admitted it yourself that will eat crow for as long as it takes. You see...you are NOT here just for the kids.  ;)
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2016, 11:11:15 PM »
It's currently 10:00 pm, and she's in the backyard with her alcoholic friend burning their bras.  Right because her life is so miserable being married to me and she needs to prove some kind of stupid drunken point.  I saw her out the back window and she actually tried to hide her bra by stuffing it down her pants. 

Honestly it's like being married to a teenager.  If it weren't for the OM I could laugh at all this.  Maybe that's the place that I need to get to in life, where I am so detached and objective that I can view what she's doing as laughable rather than tragic.  I am definitely not there yet. 

:sigh: why could I have not married a normal woman.  One of the things I always loved about her when we were younger is that she had her head screwed on straight.  Not anymore...
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline hawk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #33 on: April 30, 2016, 11:23:09 PM »
l've never understood why women burn bras , like it's our fault they have tits . Or like it's the worlds fault they need a bra.

l loved the way mine had her head screwed on too , although all this wasn't only her fault in my sitch but her clear thinking did sure go out the window non the less.

What your asking yourself to go through is a huge thing though , so don't be too hard on yourself eh.
Together 19yrs
BD, 2012
Divorce 16mths later

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2016, 04:41:21 AM »
Hawk: FYI

I have never burned bras in my life!!! Nobody is faulting anyone for having tits. Im actually damn proud of
of my "twins" !!!! ;)
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline Thunder

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #35 on: May 01, 2016, 05:06:04 AM »
I don't know..it's quite liberating to get the dang thing off.   :)

Hey akj, is there anything you could burn?  Hmm..what would be symbolic?
Do you have a jock strap?   ;D
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #36 on: May 01, 2016, 06:04:18 AM »
@Thunder:

oh I hear you!!! It is liberating indeed especially after a short run, wearing that damn tight sports bra to make sure that those "things" aren't punching you in your face. But it sure liberating to let them on the "loose"..lol..
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2016, 03:39:16 PM »
Well, today we sat down and she told me that she wants a trial separation.  She said that for a long time now she hasn't been happy living with me and she thinks that a lot of her sadness comes from the fact that she's having an affair. She wants to move out for a while, get her own place, and see if she can figure out what she wants. 

She said that she doesn't want a divorce because it's so final, and she really does love me and get along with me.  However she's not in love with me.  I know, not terribly original, but they never really are, are they?

We talked about it for quite a while.  Amazingly, I maintained my cool for all of it and told her the truth.  Namely that no one feels the same passion after 15 years that they did at first.  That some people's inclination is to turn inwards and seek ways to rekindle it, while other's  inclination is to seek it outside the marriage. 

She said that she'd like to watch the girls a week on/week off, which I said was a bit much for them at their age.  She also said something about wanting to come by on her days off to maybe help get them ready for school.  Another interesting thing she said was that it would be nice to invite each other along for family outings or what not, as in if she's taking the girls on a bike ride she could call me and invite me along.  Not sure how I feel about all that.  In my mind a trial separation is an attempt by at least one person in a marriage to decide if they like being divorced. No divorced people that I've ever met do things like stop by in the morning to help their kids get ready for school while they're at their ex's house.  Am I wrong?  What do you all think?

I was very clear to her that I didn't want her to stay with me out of some misguided sense of guilt or pity.  I also said several times that I would keep a path open to her to return if she wanted.  I don't know if she ever will.  But I'm in a surprisingly solid place right now.  I don't feel nearly as despondent as I would expect.  Maybe because I've been expecting this for so long?
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2016, 06:00:45 PM »
l've never understood why women burn bras , like it's our fault they have tits . Or like it's the worlds fault they need a bra.
Finally! A thread that's interesting enough to burn through my depression (no pun intended).  :D

Viking, I could be wrong but what your wife is looking for sounds like cake eating. She wants to be able to go off on her own and do what she wants while still being able to come back home and play mommy and happy family when it suits her.

I don't know what you should do about it but it doesn't sound like a good direction for things to be going. Sort of like easing her transition out the door. Still, shes an MLCer and it's still early so she's probably going to go anyway in spite of whatever you do. Doing it this way keeps it civil and might be easier for the children although I'm not really sure how it will impact the children. It might just be confusing for them.

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #39 on: May 01, 2016, 10:08:17 PM »
I think it will probably be easier for the kids.  At least we're being friendly and this will be less traumatic for them.  What I really font understand is how friendly she's being with all this.  We went on a bike ride tonight with the girls, she made a great dinner that we all had together, and right now we're settling down to watch some TV together. Truly it's confusing.  I honestly don't think she knows what she wants.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline dogwalker

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2016, 12:46:26 AM »
Hi Viking
My W was like this in the first few months. But would then vanish for 3-6 days totally no contact then boomerang back as a Monster!. The monster has been for a few months now but the pattern is very similar now except she has all but abandoned the boys but I still show her the light home. Family meals have been stopped by the OM too.
Good luck mate we are going to need it.  DW

Offline Thunder

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2016, 04:00:18 AM »
akj,

I'm hearing what a lot of MLCer's say.  I want a separation BUT I still want to be friends.  I want my freedom but I still want you here when I want you here.
It's all so unfair.

She is not your friend, ak. 
There is nothing wrong with being on friendly terms with your W, that's good for the kids, but there is no logical reason for family time when she wants a separation.  How is that ever going to show her the reality of what she is doing?
She needs to see consequences for her choices.  Oh, I leave and guess that means no family time.

Please don't make this so easy for her.  It is not going to help you.
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline hawk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2016, 05:24:38 AM »
Hawk: FYI

I have never burned bras in my life!!! Nobody is faulting anyone for having tits. Im actually damn proud of
of my "twins" !!!! ;)


Haha so you should be hp , l'm proud of them too  :D
Together 19yrs
BD, 2012
Divorce 16mths later

Offline hawk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2016, 05:28:35 AM »
I don't know..it's quite liberating to get the dang thing off.   :)

Hey akj, is there anything you could burn?  Hmm..what would be symbolic?
Do you have a jock strap?   ;D


Well since ya put it that way , never did understand wtf it was all about tbh.
Don't worry, the boys love being let loose too. ;D

Sorry Ak , don't mean to detract from what you are going through, hang in there brother.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 05:37:40 AM by hawk »
Together 19yrs
BD, 2012
Divorce 16mths later

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2016, 05:53:41 AM »
@Thunder:

oh I hear you!!! It is liberating indeed especially after a short run, wearing that damn tight sports bra to make sure that those "things" aren't punching you in your face. But it sure liberating to let them on the "loose"..lol..
With all of the running I do I'm happy to be able to say that I've never had to worry about the "boys" slapping me in the face. That would be pretty annoying.

Sorry Viking, I couldn't resist. Besides, Hawk started it.  ;D

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2016, 06:52:40 AM »
@MyBrainisBroken:

Only difference that my "twins" are much closer to my face....your "boys" never will be . Consider this a "mixed blessing".  ;)

@Hawk: yes Im proud of "them". Glad i have your support! They are standing nice and tall just like an army ready for battle!!!... ;)
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline hawk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2016, 07:26:01 AM »
Poor Ak , sorry mate but still, hp's twins are a nice distracting subject l gotta admit and l really think l should support them, personally  8)

Now we've just gotta get B tied up somewhere  ::) , and you'll probably get your thread back.
Together 19yrs
BD, 2012
Divorce 16mths later

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2016, 07:31:35 AM »
FOCUS GUYS!
FOCUS!!! ...we r going off subject here....... ;D
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2016, 09:39:47 AM »
akj,

I'm hearing what a lot of MLCer's say.  I want a separation BUT I still want to be friends.  I want my freedom but I still want you here when I want you here.
It's all so unfair.

She is not your friend, ak. 
There is nothing wrong with being on friendly terms with your W, that's good for the kids, but there is no logical reason for family time when she wants a separation.  How is that ever going to show her the reality of what she is doing?
She needs to see consequences for her choices.  Oh, I leave and guess that means no family time.

Please don't make this so easy for her.  It is not going to help you.

I agree with what you're saying here.  It's been a little less than a day since our conversation and I haven't brought it up since.  It is obvious even to me that she's in this "cake-eating" mode.  She gets to run off and have her adventures and then come home and play mommy when it suits her.  It's childish and not realistic.  The problem I'm having - and this isn't an excuse, just sharing my thoughts with you all - is that for so many years we've been living together and been best of friends, that my instinct is to just be accomodating and friendly.  Which of course spells doormat to a lot of people.

Last night at dinner with the girls, we were doing our 'highs and lows'.  This is a little routine we have where we each share what the best thing from the day was and what the worst thing was.  When it was her turn, she said that her high was going on a bike ride and seeing her girls doing so well on their bikes.  Her low...she looked at me and said that some people already knew what it was.  Meaning of course when we had our 'separation' talk. 

Then before she went to bed that night, she gave me a long hug and even though it goes against RCR's rules for dealing with someone in MLC, I told her, "Oh [her name], I'm going to miss this."  To which she replied, "Me too...you know I'm probably going to come back, right?  I don't know what's wrong with me."  We both had a little tension laugh at that, and I said, "I sure hope so.  Just remember that the path is always open."  After we broke off the hug I told her that maybe this time apart will be good for her, that she needs to not take me for granted so much.  As I told her half-jokingly, "Because I &^%$-ing rule!  I wish you could see that."  And I meant it when I said it, and I still do.  I'm a fantastic guy.  How can you live with someone for 15 years and not see their true character?  I'm not even ugly or fat or anything.  I get complimented on my looks fairly often.

This morning she was friendly and joking with the girls, making them breakfast before school.  I glanced at her phone on the counter before I left the house for work, and she had a couple of texts from OM from this morning.  DETACHING....

I've come to the conclusion that they are confusing because they are confused.  My twin goals at this point: work on myself and figure out what I want to do, and try not to harden my heart to her so that reconciliation is impossible.  All else, I will strive to let take care of itself.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline MyBrainIsBroken

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2016, 01:39:42 PM »
I've come to the conclusion that they are confusing because they are confused.
Exactly.

See. I can stay focused when I force myself to.  :D

Offline Mac49

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2016, 03:03:17 PM »
Viking:

Reread OP's post to you.

To paraphrase - you have been given time. How you use it is your choice.

If you want to read every article, and posts, and blogs to understand WTF - you have that time.

If you want to explore Separation or Divorce options - you have that time.

If you want to kick her lying cheating a$$ to the curb - you have that time.

If you want to wait out 3 - ??? number of years until she's done cooking - you have that time.

Point is what you do from here on out is up to you. Nothing you can do, say, threaten, litigate will have any affect on her or if she decides to come back.

When you are told to "Get A life" - That would be without her, being part of a family means rights, responsibility and respect. She will tell you all about her rights, respect and responsibility are unknowns to the MLC'r.

I wish you well however after enduring 8+ years of this insanity I'm ready to move to a quiet shack in Alaska.

Peace on your journey Brother

Mac

P.S. - Avoid dwelling on "What ifs?"

Offline hawk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2016, 03:17:53 PM »
l'm really glad you had that moment with her ak and let it happen  and just be real and that she said those things. l think that will stick with her through all this .
Together 19yrs
BD, 2012
Divorce 16mths later

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2016, 03:48:47 PM »
Again,

you are such a wonderful husband to her. It does sounds like she is confused indeed. I love the part where she hugged you  but she knows she can come back again. Thats the reassurance she needs. I wish I had at least this chance, just this tiny tiny tiny chance to give this reassurance to my MLCer.

I have learned something absolutely wonderful through your last post: " the highs and lows" of the day. What a wonderful concept to keep the communication flowing with the family. I never thought of it and I believe i will use it in the future if i will be blessed have a chance to restore my relationship. Why have I never thought of it? so brilliant! i love it!!

Your love and support will always be her focus at the end of each confusing moment. It truly takes a fine man like you, to put up with her confusion . I believe in my heart and in my soul that actually you guys may still make it. The potential is actually there. I don't believe she is completely out of the door yet...deep down, she was the door still open to her, or at least a revolving one. But this is a whole other subject in itself.

Just so proud of you Viking! Sending you a virtual hug.

(((HP)))
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2016, 09:45:37 PM »
Help!!  Need some suggestions from you all.  Wife is off on a 3 day weekend with OM.  Just got a text from her saying that she misses them and wants to call them tomorrow.  Don't know what to do.  A thousand snarky responses sprang to mind.  I wanted to tell her that if she were with us instead of OM then she wouldn't be missing them.  But will that bring me closer to my goal of reconciliation?  Will that ever even be possible?  Am I letting myself be walked all over for nothing, for something that will never come to pass??  God I am so angry at her for making me feel this way.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline hawk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2016, 02:15:17 AM »
hi ak . and l'm sorry things are as they are.
tbh my friend , l wouldn't be waiting around on my so called w while she was off on a wkend with om, l'm just not built that way and l don't believe it's right .
l know it goes against hs and l'm sorry about that but none the less maybe enough is enough for you ak.

ps , mind you , since we've been divorced as far as l know they've been away a couple of times but we are divorced so , guess that's not my business.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 02:25:40 AM by hawk »
Together 19yrs
BD, 2012
Divorce 16mths later

Offline twiceburnt

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2016, 03:19:52 AM »
Hi AK,

I'm sorry I'm late to your thread.  Your story sounds very familiar to mine.  Yes, she rewrote your marriage history, etc.  Yes, she's cake eating.  My ex-w even cuddled with me in bed one time telling me everything would be ok...and it was, until the next weekend showed up and she found a new OM. 

I applaud you for sacrificing yourself for your children.  But, I have to be honest, for me, the ultimate boundary setting was the fact that she had an OM(s).  For me, it was serving her divorce papers.  She was with another man...our marriage was over.  And mine was friendly at times as well (when it suited her).  This was after she had moved out of the house, etc. (a good year after BD).  In my case, it ran a bell.  It still took a good year for her initial return, but she delayed the D forever it seemed.  Eventually she refused to sign it and we eventually got back together for a few years.  That didn't last for a number of reasons (partially because I don't think she faced her demons completely...she was still in the tunnel and I was just the best OM in her mind at that point). 

Keep posting.  You have a lot of support here.  I will disagree with giving her the impression she has a way back though.  That just seems to delay their full return.  It is almost like saying they can still cake eat and it is ok.  But that's just my opinion.  There is no sure fire way of getting them back.  Each case is different...although very similar in the same sense.

I had pretty much moved on emotionally before she came running back.  Once I stopped letting her have her cake and eat it too, things started to change.  But, don't get me wrong, it wasn't instant.  It took a while.  It took me a year to detach and finally start to set real boundaries.  Then another year of her moving out, etc. before the initial reconciliation attempt occurred.  It was a lot shorter of a time period than normal with MLC, and she was still in her late 30's, so that probably plays into it as well. 

Once she hit 40 years old, I could see changes again (not good ones either).  And a year later, I pretty much got the same BD speech.  Now we're officially divorced and she's obsessed with the new OM.  Her sister's have pretty much disowned her.  Her own daughter (my SD), still lives with me and refused to move into OM's house, etc.  The chemical/emotional high the OM gives them is too strong currently.  You can't defeat that.  Time and experience (for her) will blow that out of the water, but that is years down the road.

Reconciliations do happen, but it is usually them fighting for the LBS back.  Typically, by the time an MLCer comes out of the fog, their former spouse has moved on.  So don't worry so much about your own actions at this point...none of that seems to determine the outcome anyhow.  It pretty much comes down to if the MLCer can face her own demons and fix their flaws and come to the determination that it was them (depression/hormones, childhood issues, etc.) the whole time. 

I forgot to mention that it is extremely hard to live with them as well.  Things got much easier when she moved out.  Detaching is hard enough as it is.  When you are still under the same roof, it is almost impossible.  So don't beat yourself up if you are struggling with detaching in your current situation.  Don't move out though.  She's the one who wants out...she needs to move out if that's what she wants.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 03:44:58 AM by twiceburnt »
I’ve seen it before
Now get your ass out the door
Won’t take $h!te anymore
You think you know, but you’re horribly blind
You think you know how this story’s defined
You think you know that your heart has gone cold inside
Fine
You think you know, but it’s all in your mind
You think you know just whose fate has been signed
You think you know just whose heart has gone cold this time
Mine
~ Device - You think You Know
--------------------------------------------
And when you're broken, and bitter inside
And reality sucks, because you know I'm right
All over nothing, unforgiving inside
Well doesn't it suck, just to know I'm right?
~ Device - Vilify

Offline Lanzo

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2016, 06:24:03 AM »
Not sure if you have had an answer to your question but in my opinion if W is on a holiday, get away, romantic break or whatever you want to call it with OM I would not be so accommodating and would not have any contact with her even if it is to speak to the kids.

 But the problem you have given yourself is that you have kept things mega friendly and have left the door wide open so your W is probably is expecting you to be available to let her speak to the kids.

It’s a tough one for you, but I would not be available for her.


Lanzo
We survive, Life really does go on

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2016, 12:54:14 PM »
Well I sent her a couple of texts back.  I told Herr that if she were with us instead of off on her weekend with OM then she wouldn't be missing the kids.  I also told her that she's not.going to be calling the girls while she's having this romantic getaway with OM on Mothers Day weekend of all times.  Haven't heard back from her since.  It doesn't matter since I'm pretty much ready to move on at this point.

The man from 2 years ago would not have put up with this.  I've gotten so beat down but I think that I've finally hit my limit.  It's hard for me to acknowledge but I don't really see any chance for reconciliation anymore.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline LearningIamOk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2016, 02:10:27 PM »
ak, never say never about reconciliation, but you gave her a pretty staggering Truth Dart. She will probably withdraw and sulk, but I hope it hit it's mark and makes her think for a moment.

You don't have to give up your Stand, but please try to GAL for yourself. Start putting you first (after the kids' needs, of course) in your mind. Do things you enjoy. Rediscover interests and passions you had before marriage and the kids. You might find that you really like that guy. :)  You'll want to spend time with him. The kids will want to spend time with him. It's a win-win.

I think you are doing a great job of holding it altogether. That is no small feat. Be kind and understanding to yourself. Each sitch is unique. You need to do whatever will allow you to look at yourself in the mirror with no regrets. You need to be happy with your choices. You will know in your gut when you have had enough. Listen to it. Your gut is never wrong. No one else's opinion of how you approach this matters. Only what you think matters.
trying2bok

Offline Lanzo

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2016, 02:44:37 PM »
I agree,  never say never about reconciliation but I give you a big pat on the  back for letting her know If she's with OM then that's her business, not somthing to be shared with you and your kids.   

Lanzo
We survive, Life really does go on

Offline twiceburnt

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2016, 01:42:26 AM »
Yep, I agree with the others.  I'm not saying don't stand, but don't give her the impression that all is well and you'll be there for her in the end.  You certainly can be, just don't let her know...hide it, start new hobbies, live life to the fullest...even if it is just an act.

This will be the worst thing you've ever been through, but you'll get through it and be a better person in the end.

Don't give up on reconciliation, but don't expect it either.  Live as if she isn't coming back (although there is a good chance she will).  I really didn't give my ex-W a path back.  In fact I made it quite clear to her.  Yet she came begging back and I eventually gave in.  She went off the deep end a second time in my situation, so I don't know if that option is available again, but you never know.  I haven't totally blocked out reconciliation again, but it will be even harder now.  I'm not sure if I'm strong enough to make an attempt (assuming she tries to come back again). 

You are doing fine though.  You seem to have yourself together much better than I did at the same time frame.  I was originally on a different MLC forum during my first bout of this, and that was all lost (their server crashed).  I was a wreck.  Like I said, it took me a good year or so before I was truly able to embrace detaching. 
I’ve seen it before
Now get your ass out the door
Won’t take $h!te anymore
You think you know, but you’re horribly blind
You think you know how this story’s defined
You think you know that your heart has gone cold inside
Fine
You think you know, but it’s all in your mind
You think you know just whose fate has been signed
You think you know just whose heart has gone cold this time
Mine
~ Device - You think You Know
--------------------------------------------
And when you're broken, and bitter inside
And reality sucks, because you know I'm right
All over nothing, unforgiving inside
Well doesn't it suck, just to know I'm right?
~ Device - Vilify

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2016, 12:05:50 AM »
Well a quick update on my situation.  Wife left town for Mother's Day weekend to have a four day weekend with OM.  I believe this was her rock bottom.
  She came back Sunday evening much more remorseful than I've seen her in a looong time.  We had a long talk (approx 3 hours) and she admitted that she didn't know what the hell she was doing.  Not.going to go into all the details but she was pretty unhappy and seemed genuinely confused as to what she was doing.

For my part, I had hit a wall.  I turned a corner over the weekend and realized that I was done.  I had (and have) hit my emotional limit.  I remember laying in bed Saturday morning, thinking about how lonely I was and how I wished that I could be spending my life with someone, while my wife was off spending the weekend with some other guy.  I just had enough.  I got so angry.  I went out and talked to a lawyer that afternoon.

I realized that I'd rather be alone than be with someone who didn't even know if they wanted to be with me.  For crying out loud how much time does it take to make up your mind if you want to be with someone.  And in the meantime just totally treating them like ÷×&#.  I've tried to be patient.  I've tried to be compassionate.  I've tried to put myself in her shoes.  And it's gotten me nothing but getting taken advantage of, frankly.

But she seemed genuinely sorry.  And we walked back from the edge of divorce, but I felt it in me - and still do - that I'm honestly ready to go both ways. At this point I feel I've detached enough that even though I'd be sad, I wouldn't be as devastated as I would have been a year ago.  But still, what a damn tragedy.  Two kids whose safety and security would be torn away, 15 years of marriage down the tubes, our home and possessions split up or sold off...good lord I'd do nearly anything to avoid that.

Except live with any more infidelity.  I refuse.  That's my boundary, evidently.

After our talk, she said well can i have a day to think about it.  I felt I had pushed it enough so I said yes.

The next day she said that she would end it with him. 
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2016, 12:14:38 AM »
Then, out of the blue on the following day (Tuesday), she sent me the following text:

So I'm down with going to therapy. I don't know how I got here but I am sincerely sorry. I am a lying cheating POS and I'm so sorry. I've got some changes to make and I'm working on figuring all this out. I don't know how I ended up in this spot in life but I'm going to get out of it. I have disrespected you and I'm sorry.

This was totally out of the blue.  I've been practicing detachment and haven't gone NC (we live together after all) but I've gone as dark as possible.  This truly shocked me.

Then, just as I get my hopes up  (when a little) tonight she tells me that maybe there's something wrong with her, because she's not even sure if she wants to be with anyone. That maybe she doesn't want any serious relationships in her life, just acquaintances.  Not having anyone depend on her or to be responsible for anyone's happiness or contentment.

I truly think that at the heart of the MLCers predicament is a fundamentally selfish personality.  What kind of 41 year old can honestly and soberly state that they think they might like to go through life without any deep relationships?  That just strikes me as profoundly immature.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 12:23:00 AM by akjomsviking »
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2016, 12:19:48 AM »
As I'm typing this I just had a small epiphany.  Of COURSE she's selfish.  Who would do what she's doing without being selfish?  But perhaps she's progressing to a point where she won't be so selfish...maybe this stage is a necessary part of her crisis?  I don't know.

All I know is that I'm feeling cautiously optimistic.  I've gotten more sleep in the past few days than I've gotten in weeks.  Is that weird, given we haven't really even started to reconcile in any meaningful way?  She did say tonight that she might like for us to start meeting together nine more neutral places, out of the house basically, ro see if we could possibly rekindle a romance together. I took that as a good progression, to be totally honest.  I wouldn't expect her to just jump back into anything with me anyways.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline OldPilot

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2016, 04:11:47 AM »
As I'm typing this I just had a small epiphany.  Of COURSE she's selfish. 
All MLC'ers are selfish.

Its a character trait.

JMHO

Offline LearningIamOk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2016, 04:39:41 AM »
She is a total ball of confusion.  :P  But if she is willing to try, what have you got to lose? You're no worse off than you would have been not trying. It's still not an easy road. You will both have your wobbles, but it's worth trying to save it.

And as far as MLC is concerned, the prefix of Mr. or Mrs. should be replaced with "Selfish".
trying2bok

Offline Holdingpattern

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2016, 02:21:02 PM »
Viking:

it has been awhile since i have been  here posting on your thread, but I have read you from a distance. I have been rather distracted lately....

IM sorry about this mad confusion that she is putting you through. It is maddening to say the least . Just in the moment u just about had it, it seems like things may turn around. Yes, MLC are definitely selfish people. My ex even said it himself : " I have pulled back too much from you for my own selfishness" , and then another time he wrote me - his own true words - " I have been  selfish all my life and i need to repair eventually all the damage done". So,  u see...they are not that far gone in their heads. They KNOW what they are doing, but we keep making up excuses for them because we love them and probably because we are on denial that they are not who we thought they were. So yes, absolutely Viking. They are indeed selfish and they know it.

Destiny is really a funny thing. IM trying to GAL really bad. I need it and working on it for my own sanity. We always say to trust in God, and we do. But I have also noticed that what they call it "Gods timing", I call it " God sense of humor". Im so sure that the moment we truly detach and say "screw it" ( u said "I'm done") , then usually thats when u may see the picture changing. All this time we wanted something so much to be happening, nothing nothing happened . The moment , we truly let go ..sometimes i noticed thats when things get in motion. I feel that it will happen with me too.

IN your case, this is hard. All this time u have been sweet, gentle and letting her have "her thing", even if deep down u cry on the inside and it is terribly offensive what she is doing to you. I can only imagine what was like for you watching her  coming and going to/from O/M and watching her burning her bra (pls don't talk about bra and "twins"  around Hawk....you really got him all discombobulated !! ) But all this time, u stood for your marriage and your kids. Like someone else said here " hey, u have nothing to loose". Maybe your detachment is working (maybe- i don't know but if she doesn't know what se wants, she may be cycling. Honestly, i would not put of all my eggs in one basket. ) .

Again, you have nothing to loose. I am no longer sure how committed you are to save this marriage, or actually let me rephrase it: you have been committed, it is simply discouraging NOT to see the progress that you wished. At this point it does sound u are bit over this teen ager $h!te, and rightly so. U definitely have one foot in and one out the door.

I don't have kids , but i know for fact one thing: if i had one, I know that i would rather be single but peaceful instead of being in a so called "marriage" to make it work just for the sake of the kids. I don't think and i never believed this approach would work. Kids are vulnerable and they emulate the behavior of their parents. Honestly, i thin your kids rather see you HAPPY instead of being miserable and cheated upon. It is not fair to you that you may cutting yourself short with the remote chance that you may be happy with someone else.

The most unexpected things can happen to you - good things i mean. I can empathize to a certain point when people say "got to work on the relationship", " got to rekindle the magic". Sometimes even if I'm with you in all of this, I feel that "feelings" are either there or not. LOVING SOMEONE AND BEING LOVED BACK, doesn't take that much work. IT IS NOT ROCKET SCINCE. It is not work. It is simply the law of "give-and-get" .Is is however the law of attraction. Is either there , or not. You cannot try to make someone like you or love you. U can't rekindle a candle which melted all the way through. I know for fact , even of myself, that WHAT IT USED TO BE, IT WILL NEVER BE. We need to come to reality and stop living a fantasy. The ones we married , betrayed us in the worst way. They have broken the most and safest covenant of marriage . It is the ultimate betrayal . I believe at the end of the day, the sun will rise again FOR YOU AND FOR ME.

Of course we make choices in life. My standing is becoming very lopsided in the last few weeks. I stand for myself at this point until my next move. Im not in a hurry but I'm not going to cut myself short to wait for an @$$hole to is deciding whether he wants me or not.

Look around yourself, watch the news and listen to all the $h!te happening. Life is too short and I have decided to live in the present. Whatever it will offer me, i will take it. The only difference is that this time : I HAVE A CHOICE. AND SO DO YOU MY LOYAL FRIEND. !!! For myself I have decided that IF and When that times comes, i will think about it then.

My opinion is to frigging let her go and let "unconfuse" herself on her own timing. NOT YOURS. I think honestly u have done plenty and enough.....u have plenty of HALO from me.

A big hug to you honey. You are strong man I can feel it. You are TRULY A WONDERFUL MAN AND PLEASE TAKE TRUE COMFORT IN THAT. Someone else out there can't wait to get to know you and love you for everything that you are.

(((((( hug )))))) HP.
"Never judge a book by its cover".

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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A Message of Hope - Life after the Unthinkable
« Reply #67 on: January 25, 2019, 12:40:56 PM »
Where to start?  Wow!  It has been a ride.  My wife started to go through her MLC years ago (probably started around 2013 to be honest) and it finally came to a head in 2016.  I wrote quite a few posts at that time as I was trying to make sense of why a grown woman with two kids and a house would blow her life up for no conceivable reason.  Obviously I've learned a lot since then and most of that is thanks to all the great comment on this site.

I moved out that November and our dissolution was 'official' by March of 2017.  I can tell you that I was truly heartbroken.  I lost close to 30 pounds, suffered quite a few sleepless nights, etc. etc.  The breakup of my marriage left me an emotional wreck.  The behavior of my MLC-spouse leading up to the end left me in a financial wreck.  It was a long, slow process to recover.

Why am I writing this post and starting this thread?  Because I want to speak to you folks in the midst of your spouse's MLC and tell you: it absolutely will get better.  You are stronger than you know.  Let me repeat that because I know in my own case I really didn't believe it at the time: You are stronger than you know.  You are capable of great things and life on your own is not a never ending parade of misery and heartache.

I did not want to get a divorce.  I wanted to keep my marriage and family together.  I believed at the time, and still do now, that my entire family (my kids, my spouse, and myself) would be better off if we were all together and working hard to have a nice life together.  I do not think that the problems between my ex-wife and I were irreconcilable.  BUT - and this is an important lesson to us all, but especially those of us married to MLCers - just because something is not the best situation doesn't mean that you can't be happy, peaceful, self-confident, and content.  In fact in some ways I have to admit that I am actually happier now than I was in my marriage. 

For the past year I've been in a relationship with a sweet, beautiful woman who appreciates me and is thrilled to have me around.  It won't be a surprise to any of you who have had to live through your spouse's MLC that this was a HUGE adjustment for me!  :)  Not that I'm complaining.  But after many, many years of being married to a teenager in a grown woman's body it is a never ending source of joy for me to be dating an adult again.  Sometimes I go back over my journal entries and my posts on this board and I'm amazed at the level of emotional abuse that I was putting up with on a daily basis.  But my point is - I'm emotionally in a MUCH better place now than I have been for many years.

Financially I'm ALSO better off now than I was before.  Despite child support, despite having to scrimp and save and budget my way through paying off my share of the loads of debt that was accumulated in the tail end of her MLC.  Because now that I've dug myself out of that hole, what I earn is MINE to spend as I see fit.  No more wasting it on this absurd whim or that extravagance trying to fill an empty hole in someone's life.  And unbelievably I'm better off with a single income than I was when living with my MLC spouse who regularly burned through her entire paycheck and a good portion of mine.

So keep your chin up!  Keep smiling!  Remember that you are stronger and wiser and more capable than you imagine.  And even though you feel like you are in a dark, terrifying tunnel right now, there is light at the end of that tunnel.  There is life after our MLC spouses leave and it can be a glorious, calm, sweet, wonderful thing.



Edit - threads merged - OldPilot
« Last Edit: January 25, 2019, 01:08:40 PM by OldPilot »
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline LearningIamOk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #68 on: January 25, 2019, 03:03:24 PM »
viking, I am delighted to read your update! I am glad that you made it thru the dark days and have grown to realize that you are quite okay without your spouse. It takes a long time to come to that point.

I am also delighted that you have found adult companionship. It is amazing that when you are in a normal relationship, you can see clearly that the former relationship wasn't all that it was cracked up to be.

I don't think any us on here wanted the D. It's sad it had to end. But, as you said, we are much stronger than we know. As we navigated the MLC mindf*** that our spouses put us thru, we learned time and again that we could overcome.

Welcome to the sunshine.
trying2bok

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2019, 03:25:17 PM »
Welcome to the sunshine.

Thanks!  It is so glad to be back.  I forgot that I am actually a naturally happy and relaxed person there for a while.  haha

One more thing that your post made me think of - it's odd but a lot of you mention how your MLC spouse eventually comes around.  Mine did finally come around and apologized - like a real, adult apology.  It floored me.  I do not understand this culture and our glorification of youth that leads to the MLC but it is creepy how similar our stories all are.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

Offline LearningIamOk

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2019, 03:36:20 PM »
Wow! You got an apology?! Those are few and far between. I haven't seen my xH since our D's wedding almost 2 1/2 years ago. He will never, NEVER apologize to me. He holds me completely accountable for his unhappiness. And now he has the OW of his dreams that he blew up our M for. A woman that everyone who meets her shakes their head and says "WTF?!".

And I have a wonderful man in my life, for 6 years now, that everyone loves including my kids. They love their dad, but wish he could've been like my boyfriend. My S33 says he knew something was wrong with his dad when he realized he didn't have a record collection from growing up in the 70's. Music is so important to S.
trying2bok

Online Treasur

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2019, 11:57:59 PM »
Welcome to the sunshine.

Thanks!  It is so glad to be back.  I forgot that I am actually a naturally happy and relaxed person there for a while.  haha

One more thing that your post made me think of - it's odd but a lot of you mention how your MLC spouse eventually comes around.  Mine did finally come around and apologized - like a real, adult apology.  It floored me.  I do not understand this culture and our glorification of youth that leads to the MLC but it is creepy how similar our stories all are.

How long did it take her to apologise, Viking? How long has it been, about 3-4 years since her crisis started? And does she now seem less MLC and more 'normal' her when/if you interact?  How does she feel about her new life vs old life now?

I wonder if it is less about a culture of youth but also a growing social culture of narcissism actually. Posing on social media, lots of me me enititlement and find your bliss no matter what. Having said that, I don't think the culture causes MLC or depression - it's a personal crisis - but RL cultural norms probably enable it sometimes perhaps.

Glad to hear you and your kids are doing ok. I think many of us loved our pre-crisis spouse very much but after a few years of batsnot bonkers as UM would say, it is hard to remember what that was like or respect them.  It must be very nice to have a relationship with a nice sane grownup person  :)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 12:03:05 AM by Treasur »
T: 18  M: 12 (at BD) No kids.
H diagnosed with severe depression Oct 15. BD May 16. OW since April 16, maybe earlier. Silent vanisher mostly.
Divorced April 18. XH married ow 6 weeks later.
Healing and growing found here https://littleplotbythesea.wordpress.com

"Option A is not available so I need to kick the s**t out of Option B" Sheryl Sandberg

Offline Thunder

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #72 on: January 26, 2019, 05:39:36 AM »
Hi ak, I am so happy for you!

You are out of, and away from, all that darkness now.  It takes us awhile but we do gain the strength to put ourselves first.

I wish you nothing but happiness and thank you for coming back and updating us.
It's nice to read a success story.   :)

Goes to show you, you CAN be happy after a divorce.  You CAN find a normal, loving, adult partner who will treat you better than you ever were treated by your MLCer.
Don't be afraid to take that leap, if you need to.  You could fine true happiness.

Hugs
A quote from a recovered MLCer: 
"From my experience if my H had let me go a long time ago, and stop pressuring me, begging, and pleading and just let go I possibly would have experienced my awakening sooner than I did."

Offline readytofixmyselffirst

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Re: A Message of Hope - Life after the Unthinkable
« Reply #73 on: January 27, 2019, 06:44:00 AM »
Where to start?  Wow!  It has been a ride.  My wife started to go through her MLC years ago (probably started around 2013 to be honest) and it finally came to a head in 2016.  I wrote quite a few posts at that time as I was trying to make sense of why a grown woman with two kids and a house would blow her life up for no conceivable reason.  Obviously I've learned a lot since then and most of that is thanks to all the great comment on this site.

Same here, my ex threw away a nice home where we lived with our two daughters.

Quote
I did not want to get a divorce.  I wanted to keep my marriage and family together.  I believed at the time, and still do now, that my entire family (my kids, my spouse, and myself) would be better off if we were all together and working hard to have a nice life together.  I do not think that the problems between my ex-wife and I were irreconcilable.  BUT - and this is an important lesson to us all, but especially those of us married to MLCers - just because something is not the best situation doesn't mean that you can't be happy, peaceful, self-confident, and content.  In fact in some ways I have to admit that I am actually happier now than I was in my marriage. 

Neither than I. I was willing to live in a so-so marriage if it meant keeping the family together. Like you, mine started in 2010, lasted until 2013 when we divorced. I was distraught at how my entire life went from being content to completely upside down.

I found a special lady and we dated for four years before we got married. It isn't perfect and we have our moments. (I drive her practical, logical, pragmatic brain crazy!) But I am more excited and happy then I have been in a long time.

My girls are grown, but just young adults.

I was amazed at how much you put up with and I truly am glad you made it through your tunnel of darkness to find a better world for you and your girls.

((((Hugs)))

Ready
"Always look in the mirror and love what you see."

Offline akjomsvikingTopic starterTopic starter

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Re: Coming to the Conclusion that it May Be All Over
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2019, 05:53:39 PM »
How long did it take her to apologise, Viking? How long has it been, about 3-4 years since her crisis started? And does she now seem less MLC and more 'normal' her when/if you interact?  How does she feel about her new life vs old life now?

Sorry that I'm responding to this so late, but for some reason I'm not getting notifications from this forum.  I'll have to check on that!

It took her about a year, but in that time she went through a significant personal crisis and I think that accelerated things for her.  When I talk to her now she seems more relaxed, less manic.  Of course I'm only dealing with her for a few minutes at a time.  But she is definitely a different person.  If I met her now I wouldn't be attracted to her in the slightest but she at least acts her age, and that is a HUGE improvement over what was happening while she was in the thick of it.
2 Children
1st BD: May 2013
Reconciled Sept 2013
2nd BD: Oct 2015
Separation: Nov 2016
Dissolution: March 2017

 

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